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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 25 Dec 2017

      Who ordered *that*? Retweeted Ana Tudor  🐯

      Or use basically *any* accessibility feature or try to input text in a different language. Please don't reinvent browser features in JS; you're going to miss on a *lot* of engineering work put into making stuff work for everyone.https://twitter.com/anatudor/status/945370849871265793 …

      Who ordered *that*? added,

      Ana Tudor  🐯 @anatudor
      Please don't recreate form elements with divs. Because it's highly unlikely you'll reproduce all functionality with JS. And somebody will try to focus it. Or click on a certain part of your nice control. Expecting the thing to work like a native element does. But it won't. 😭
      Show this thread
      3 replies 4 retweets 44 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ManishEarth

      The thing people miss is that the web has a design principle that things like <input> and <select> delegate to the OS controls. This is a feature not a bug! Flash tried to unify and while the controls were pretty enough and consistent, the experience sucked.

      5:37 PM - 25 Dec 2017
      • 2 Retweets
      • 16 Likes
      • Micah M-E Aleksey Gladysh javashrimp dev Dan Levy Jordy👻 cglee Jonathan Cran Michael Christenson II James Olguin
      4 replies 2 retweets 16 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @ManishEarth

          Accessibility is just a special case of "paste works, even when paste means long-press for an OS specified amount of time and select 'paste' from an OS supplied menu". Nobody can make <select> correctly work the way it should even when iOS redesigns or when mobile gets popular.

          2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
        3. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I wouldn't really phrase it as a special case; given that there are tons of other things you can get wrong (cursors for non Latin text, for one) even if you let the OS drive the actual input. But yeah, essentially, true.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ManishEarth

          Fair enough, you can't just lean on the OS. But as a starting point, leaning on OS-provided controls that the OS already knows how to make accessible will make the problem tractable. Rebuilding from the ground up makes it intractable.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Oh no, that wasn't what I was saying, I was saying that "paste working perfectly" is not the general case because you can get paste to work in accordance with expectations and still have other broken things which the OS would have handled for yourself.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ManishEarth

          Ahhhhh... I was just using "paste" as an analogy for a category of things that people try to reinvent ("I'll just intercept ctrl-v") but which break both *normal* usability as well as accessibility.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Gorgi Kosev‏ @spion 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @ManishEarth

          The trouble is these are still very crummy in most OSes and there is no way to fix them 😞

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @spion @wycats

          Web browsers generally change the appearance and also give you the ability to style things in a limited but powerful fashion.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Gorgi Kosev‏ @spion 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ManishEarth @wycats

          I meant in terms of functionality. For example, https://harvesthq.github.io/chosen/  is miles ahead of any desktop browser <select> implementation I've ever seen

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @spion @wycats

          Worth mentioning -- regular <select> also has a type-to-search, it just fills an invisible edit field. In this case this input field is implemented using other input fields, which is kinda ok. Doesn't work on my phone, though (kinda the point?)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Who ordered *that*?‏ @ManishEarth 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ManishEarth @spion @wycats

          This particular thing really should be improved by browsers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Gorgi Kosev‏ @spion 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ManishEarth @wycats

          Some search things that I'd love to see improved: string should not reset based on timeout, adding some visual feedback for the search, option to narrow the list of results, option to plug in custom search matching function

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Gorgi Kosev‏ @spion 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @spion @ManishEarth @wycats

          And for multi-select, making it more difficult to destroy your entire selection would be a good start.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @spion @ManishEarth

          And with all of this, replacing <select> destroys the experience on mobile, breaks most autofill, and breaks accessibility. I'm not opposed to people building from scratch, but form controls are a poor place to do it. As @ManishEarth says, we should fix it if it needs fixing.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        10. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Aleksey Gladysh‏ @lyosha_g 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @ManishEarth

          JS reimplementations of native controls annoy me to no end, especially when the author simply wanted it to fit with their theme, which can easily — albeit with some hacks — be done with CSS. Can we get icons in <select> for Christmas 2018 though?

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @lyosha_g @ManishEarth

          Do you want help proposing it?

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Aleksey Gladysh‏ @lyosha_g 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @ManishEarth

          Yes, please!

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. Aleksey Gladysh‏ @lyosha_g 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @ManishEarth

          When illustrations are a must in a drop down control is the only time I use a custom JS control, which I usually make sure is accessible via keyboard and whatnot, but it’s a lot of pain and still not the best solution for the problem.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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