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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Florian Reuschel‏ @Loilo92 25 Dec 2017

      Has there ever been an proposal for a way to modify JavaScript prototypes only inside modules where it's explicitely declared? Basically as in Kotlin Extensions? http://kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/extensions.html … Is there an obvious reason this would be a bad idea? @wycats @domenic @bterlson

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. 𝕓𝕠𝕠rian.d.mtsx‏ @bterlson 25 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Loilo92 @wycats @domenic

      I think it's a good idea (@wycats convinced me of this). It also is a reason why I support pipeline over bind since something like this would make a bind operator much less useful IMO.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
      Replying to @bterlson @Loilo92 @domenic

      The last time it came up it failed allegedly for implementation difficulty (aka performance) reasons. I'm not quite sure why you'd expect lexical scoped object extensions to be hard to JIT but IANAI

      1:46 PM - 25 Dec 2017
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @bterlson and

          I dunno what the perf impact would be (cc @bmeurer) but I'm wondering about the mental model. Would the scoping be easy enough to understand, or just add more confusion? And could/should this feature also work outside modules so existing bundling strategies keep working?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @littledan @wycats and

          Anyway I guess a lot of languages have extensions of some kind at this point (Scala, Swift in addition to Kotlin); it's not crazy to think of how this could work in JS

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Benedikt Meurer‏ @bmeurer 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @littledan @wycats and

          Due to the dynamic nature of JavaScript this could be quite costly in general. You'd have to do secondary lookups on each "affected" property access in scope. Also this will be fun to spec with eval/with/Function.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @bmeurer @littledan and

          I think we'd want to define it so that the extensions "win" and can't be changed. This would mean that if you get a hit by the time you're JITing, you can rely on the hit remaining stable.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Benedikt Meurer‏ @bmeurer 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @littledan and

          That's a minor thing. You still need to intercept every o.x because of could be one of these prototypes (assuming that x was listed in the extensions). And even worse every o[k] because k could evaluate to a property key in the extension list.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Benedikt Meurer‏ @bmeurer 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @bmeurer @wycats and

          Not saying it's not doable, but it comes at a cost.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Daniel Ehrenberg‏ @littledan 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @bmeurer @wycats and

          Something in common among the other languages I amdon't aware of which support extensions is that they can be resolved more or less statically

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 26 Dec 2017
          Replying to @littledan @bmeurer and

          Right. I think if we did this we would want very static resolution. I think that's a fair constraint.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        10. 7 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Domenic Denicola‏ @domenic 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @bterlson @Loilo92

          Changing the meaning of the . operator to depend on lexical information seems rather expensive, but IANAI either.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @domenic @bterlson @Loilo92

          I'd expect it to be more expensive on lower tiers (closer to "interpreter" modes) but not bad when JITed because the lexical-ness means any piece of JITed code can only have a single resolved meaning for the `.`. Probably matters a lot how dynamic we'd allow these things to be.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @domenic and

          Bottom line is of course implementability would need to drive another round of this if we wanted to try again.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Stefan Penner‏ @stefanpenner 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @domenic and

          I like the feature, but the refactoring hazard risk seems high. (Or should atleast be considered)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Stefan Penner‏ @stefanpenner 25 Dec 2017
          Replying to @stefanpenner @wycats and

          Bind operator feels less risky

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation

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