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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @binarybits @startupandrew

      I think the nut of his mistake is that if you don't ask people to tone down their response to the Damore memo, the environment will be hostile to SpaceX and Bitcoin. And come on you cover Silicon Valley. SV is plenty fine with that kind of idea.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @binarybits

      I didn’t interpret his post that way.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @startupandrew @binarybits

      His post claims that: 1. You would not do SpaceX in SV today because "doing something the government had already decided was too hard" is heretical 2. You have to have a zero tolerance policy for "heresy" because it causes 1.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @startupandrew @binarybits

      But (1) is actually false, and people strongly disagreeing with something en masse is not the same thing as "heresy"

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @binarybits

      @ultrasaurus take a look at his clarification post: http://blog.samaltman.com/a-clarification  This is my thinking as well. Thoughts?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Sarah Allen‏ @ultrasaurus 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @startupandrew @wycats @binarybits

      It is not my experience in SF that reasoned discussions of controversial issues are banned. I often express unpopular and controversial opinions and sometimes feel that there are risks in doing so, but I fear anonymous internet trolls much more than the people who live in SF.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ultrasaurus @startupandrew @binarybits

      Correct. This is the more usual, content-free version of the point. It's not really clarifying, because it removes any actual advice for actual humans. "We as a society should ..." is only meaningful if it's meant as "you as a person should do X to bring about ..."

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @ultrasaurus and

      I don't think "people shouldn't eat meat" is "heretical" to the point of being undiscussable in SV. Mostly we're talking about opinions masquerading as ideas that have long ago (and repeatedly since) been debunked.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @ultrasaurus and

      These days, when someone brings up Race/IQ bile or the "idea" that maybe the reason some groups are underrepresented in software is biological, it's reasonable for most of us to collectively say "ugh, this again?!" and not engage in it as an "important idea" worth debating.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Timothy B. Lee‏Verified account @binarybits 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @ultrasaurus @startupandrew

      I don't think anyone objects to not engaging with those ideas. It's the part where people try to get people fired and blacklisted from future employment for expressing them that leads to worries about freedom of speech.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
      Replying to @binarybits @ultrasaurus @startupandrew

      I think it's reasonable for me, as a hiring manager, to not want to hire someone who believes some of my employees are biologically less suited for their job. Don't you?

      11:50 AM - 16 Dec 2017
      • 1 Like
      • Sarah Allen
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @binarybits @ultrasaurus

          Sure. But our criteria for deciding what topics are in-bounds for discussion can’t simply be that a consensus has formed around them. There was a day when the consensus view was that women couldn’t be as effective as CEOs as men. I’m glad that’s changed.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @startupandrew @wycats and

          What views that we currently hold should change over next 50 years? I think we can be confident that some ideas we find offensive today will one day be accepted (and for the better). Most of the offensive ideas wont be, but there’s no way to know the difference before the fact

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @startupandrew @binarybits @ultrasaurus

          Sure. And if the "controversial ideas" are not being used as excuses to block efforts to make the group of people in our community less homogenous, then it's probably not one of the topics I'm talking about.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @binarybits @ultrasaurus

          I think this definition is a slippery slope. For example, our public transit infrastructure plays a big role in racial segregation in cities. When discussing transit, should it be unacceptable to propose ideas that might exacerbate the problem?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @startupandrew @wycats and

          Would it be inappropriate to say “yes, this proposal increases racial and socioeconomic segregation, but the safety and cost benefits outweigh those problems?”

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @startupandrew @binarybits @ultrasaurus

          I think it would probably be ok if, when you say that, a lot of people got upset and you were inundated with replies. The idea that "sometimes I get attacked when I say this" = "it's impossible to talk about it" is just privilege talking.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats @binarybits @ultrasaurus

          I'm not trying to discuss what should be allowed. Nor is Sam, I think. Certainly I think criticism should be allowed. That's not the point. An overzealous reaction to those ideas will suppress discussion of them, which will ultimately be bad for everyone.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Andrew Lee‏ @startupandrew 16 Dec 2017
          Replying to @startupandrew @wycats and

          And, yes, it's a privilege to be heard and to have my ideas thoughtfully considered. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be a goal.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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