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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Gavin Sharp‏ @gavinsharp 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I am not claiming there’s no connection. I don’t think the “ad” was a bad idea in itself (but execution could’ve been better). Being able to arrange co-marketing deals with other companies is a good example of the benefits of MoCo’s influence on Firefox, IMO.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @gavinsharp

      Yehuda Katz  🥨 Retweeted Yehuda Katz  🥨

      You keep expanding the scope of my objection to turn it into a straw man.https://twitter.com/wycats/status/941928685824745472 …

      Yehuda Katz  🥨 added,

      Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account @wycats
      Replying to @callahad @tmarble and 2 others
      I think something like about:mrrobot would have been more reasonable (at first glance) The mistake (I think) was mostly that people who could think through how it would be perceived weren't in the loop early on.
      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @gavinsharp

      I have no objection to comarketing in principle and think things like search deals are healthy. I'm objecting to the fact that it seems MoCo management has full control over the entire technical infrastructure and can bypass the project's leadership to secretly ship things.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @gavinsharp

      That is just empirically what happened here, and I think it's not a very extreme position, nor an attack on a healthy role for MoCo, to say it's a problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Gavin Sharp‏ @gavinsharp 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I doubt there was anyone in “project leadership” that wasn’t aware and accepting of this.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @gavinsharp

      If "leadership" literally means the top echelons of MoCo, that doesn't mean anything. But certainly top technical leaders, even within MoCo, were caught off guard.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Gavin Sharp‏ @gavinsharp 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      People are always caught off guard (internal comms are hard), but it’s usually people not directly involved with Firefox product dev (again I speak from experience)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @gavinsharp

      I work on projects with cross-company teams (including Rust, a Mozilla project) and these kinds of project structures are not in conflict with keeping things that need to be kept under wraps under wraps.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @gavinsharp

      I mean, we can keep abstractly arguing about whether "some MoCo control" is needed to "move forward" but that obscures what happened. Why was this particular mechanism needed to "move forward". Why wasn't a website + opt in addon sufficient?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @gavinsharp

      Why is it a threat to Mozilla's ability to "move forward" to structure things in a more opt in way? Did Mr. Robot demand this structure as a condition of doing the deal. Did MoCo leadership determine that deals precisely like this (forced install) are needed strategically?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
      Replying to @wycats @gavinsharp

      I really doubt it. The "you community zealots don't understand the reality of business" framing is just not really understanding the nature of the critique (btw I'm the CTO of a small business as my day job; I'm not a zealot)

      11:33 PM - 15 Dec 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Gavin Sharp‏ @gavinsharp 15 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I think you’re putting up the strawman now 😀 I dont think you’re a zealot, and I value community and open governance. But as I said upthread, I don’t think this particular case was primarily a failure of governance. Happy to agree to disagree and leave it at that!

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017
          Replying to @gavinsharp

          Fair enough on all fronts. And apologies for getting straw-manny on you.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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