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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
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@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

    I'm really confused by arguments that try to tell people that they are morally obligated to tolerate people saying bigoted stuff. They always act like we as individuals have control over some kind of "invisible hand" of the zeitgeist.

    9:25 PM - 15 Dec 2017
    • 10 Retweets
    • 73 Likes
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    7 replies 10 retweets 73 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

        That there is some kind of spiritual force that is "making the bigotry heretical" and that we are obligated as individuals to control the spiritual force.

        1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

        But in fact what they're saying is that if someone tells my friend they are evil, I am supposed to be cool with it in order to "make space" for "innovative ideas"

        1 reply 1 retweet 18 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

        Maybe when we tolerate the idea that certain people are inferior, we are failing to "make space" for all of the innovative ideas that those people can bring to the table?

        2 replies 11 retweets 46 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

        Maybe we should consider that environments that tolerate inequality and casual consideration of the idea that inequality is "natural", we are pushing out a huge number of people who bring new ideas to the table?

        1 reply 3 retweets 24 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

        Maybe we already have enough ideas from the kind of people who need to be able to say those kinds of things in order to thrive, and not enough ideas from people being demoralized and pushed away by all of the casual bigotry?

        1 reply 5 retweets 41 likes
        Show this thread
      7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Dec 2017

        Maybe it's ok to let people loudly and clearly push back against ideas like Damore's Google memo? Maybe trying to silence broad based disagreement with Damore's bigotry is suppressing important ideas?

        3 replies 3 retweets 37 likes
        Show this thread
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Andy Ingram  🌀‏ @andrewingram 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats

        Assuming you’re referring to Sam himself, rather than people supporting him. I don’t see him arguing for tolerance of bigotry, but rather letting people speak and then explaining why they’re wrong. But perhaps we’ve interpreted differently.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @andrewingram

        He very overtly said we need to have an environment that doesn't have norms against certain kinds of statements, and specifically used "gays are evil" as an example. The "heresy" framing means that pushing back too hard is bad.

        1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats @andrewingram

        It means "if people start getting scared that when they say something there will be a huge backlash, there is a problem" because you can't contain the "ability" to have a huge backlash to specific topics. Specifically:

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats @andrewingram

        "So if you want a culture that innovates, you can’t have a culture where you allow the concept of heresy—if you allow the concept at all, it tends to spread"

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats @andrewingram

        At some very abstract level, this sounds like a plausible claim, except that what it's saying is that if a community allows there to be a huge backlash against "gays are evil" (again, actual example he used), you make an environment that stifles innovation.

        1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
      7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats @andrewingram

        But this ignores that 1. Backlashes are often just a lot of people disagreeing at once, and this is pretty likely if someone says "gays are evil" 2. An env where people are not allowed to form a backlash against a statement like that stifles innovation from the targeted group

        2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
      8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats @andrewingram

        To lump together bigoted expression with ideas, he gives some examples of things that are heretical in SV because of the ability for backlash. And it's simply not true that "ideas that the government decided are too hard" are heretical and support-starved in SV.pic.twitter.com/Sr6A4YO5ML

        1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats @andrewingram

        So in all, this is just a request for people targeted by bigotry to tone down their responses, because if people get too much negative response to "gays are evil" they might not build SpaceX.

        0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
      10. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Craig Stuntz‏ @craigstuntz 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats

        People confuse (sometimes willfully, sometimes not) "speech limited by the state" and "people shunning bad people and telling them to stop being bad."

        1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @craigstuntz

        Right. It's a little scary when someone with as much power and access to capital as Sam makes this mistake.

        1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
      4. 1 more reply
      1. Jasondt‏ @jasondt 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats

        I think anyone writing a 10 page faux-scientific opinion piece on ANY divisive topic without providing any actual evidence other than bs citations with more of their own bs opinions is an asshat and those who think it's newsworthy and spread it like propaganda are worse

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
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      1. Beth‏ @bethcodes 16 Dec 2017
        Replying to @wycats

        They are protecting bigots. They want to make sure bigots don’t feel alienated. The most generous reading is that it’s so normal to have bigots around that to people not directly harmed by them their absence is disturbing. I am not inclined towards generosity, though.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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