You're arguing elitism again. I'm really coming from a place of empathy - I genuinely believe it's best for most people (not necessarily everyone) to learn things well from the start. Learning bad habits first could make it so much harder to learn good ones.
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A related learning model I use is https://terrytao.wordpress.com/career-advice/there%E2%80%99s-more-to-mathematics-than-rigour-and-proofs/ … Which basically describes a fuzzy beginner model, moving to a rigorous intermediate model, moving to enough sophistication to be able to inform the beginner model.
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I think where we differ is you view languages like Ruby or JS as being simpler because they're apparently easier to get started with - but they are in fact far more complex than the stricter languages, and it takes much, much longer to learn all their hidden details.
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I haven't used the term "simple" or "complex". I am talking about onboarding new developers, and the likely long-term effects on programmer habits (a topic you brought up).
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I know, my point is I'm not convinced that hiding complexity under more complexity is a really helpful way to get people onboard - I think it would be better to teach the fundamentals of a simpler language rather than skipping them with an easy language.
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Of course, this is based on my own experience, which was that most things didn't make sense to me unless someone offered a real explanation. I've always had a hard time with "you don't need to know that yet", which is why I never grasped chemistry ;-)
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I guess maybe I grew up in a different time, when computers were actually simple enough that you could learn every instruction and register etc. - I know that's not feasible for most people anymore, but I don't think languages have changed quite as drastically?
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They absolutely have. For example, even though I've walked the details of function structure in JavaScript it's never relevant to my work. This is the power of abstraction: we aren't just manipulating 1s and 0s: we are building sustainable mythologies in which to collaborate.
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Which is why teaching people programming is so different than teaching computer science: it's more like learning to write than it is like learning to work a machine.
End of conversation
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