I really want you to provide me with an example, not just rhetoric.
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Replying to @wycats
I don't think my post is at all rhetorical though. In my experience, devs who don't know any of the stricter languages, even if they create working products, tend to write code that no one else can understand. Programming requires discipline - the loose languages don't teach it.
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Replying to @mindplaydk
My experience is that trying to bootstrap with a strict language causes people who could be great programmers to bounce off. I wrote Ruby and JS for years before writing way more code in Rust and TS and I have not experienced years of bad habits to unlearn.
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Replying to @wycats @mindplaydk
On the other hand, as I said in my original post, sentiments about what it means to be a "real programmer" pushed me off of the path that eventually led me to working on the Rust programming language. So I just disagree with your empirical claim.
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Replying to @wycats
Isn't it possible you just didn't really have the interest or patience when you were younger though? People change. I've changed my opinions on lots of things over the years. Maybe you just weren't ready yet? ;-)
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Replying to @mindplaydk
As an older programmer I plain don't know what "unlearnable bad habits" you're talking about. Did I understand you as saying that writing code in Ruby makes people resistant to code documentation earlier?
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Replying to @wycats
No, what I'm saying is you will initially learn to count on a person deducing, or a computer to determine at runtime, the state of your program, the pre/post conditions of a function, etc. - which is costly both in computer and human resources, and a habit you must then unlearn.
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Replying to @mindplaydk
Whereas in go you are forced to understand the pre and post conditions of a function?
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Replying to @wycats
Type hints. A type hint is just an assertion about the the state of the program. Things are much simpler if you state your assumptions - "this parameter will be a number" helps both a person and a computer understand an important pre condition for a function dealing with numbers.
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Replying to @mindplaydk @wycats
But also (speaking to Ruby and JS specifically) just knowing if an object has a method - rather than looking through every line of code in the system to learn if a method was generated and attached somewhere, at some point. It's not simple for a person, at all.
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As opposed to go, where you have to search the program to look for interface definitions that might apply to your object?
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Replying to @wycats
Go has problems, it's not my favorite language - but it is a pretty good language for learning, because of its small scope and encouraging you to think about types. (even though the type system is pretty basic.)
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Replying to @mindplaydk @wycats
(Duck typing in a statically typed language is pretty uncommon - not something you find in most strict languages.)
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