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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      I really want you to provide me with an example, not just rhetoric.

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
    2. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I don't think my post is at all rhetorical though. In my experience, devs who don't know any of the stricter languages, even if they create working products, tend to write code that no one else can understand. Programming requires discipline - the loose languages don't teach it.

      4 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      My experience is that trying to bootstrap with a strict language causes people who could be great programmers to bounce off. I wrote Ruby and JS for years before writing way more code in Rust and TS and I have not experienced years of bad habits to unlearn.

      2 replies 1 retweet 15 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @mindplaydk

      On the other hand, as I said in my original post, sentiments about what it means to be a "real programmer" pushed me off of the path that eventually led me to working on the Rust programming language. So I just disagree with your empirical claim.

      6 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
    5. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 30 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      Isn't it possible you just didn't really have the interest or patience when you were younger though? People change. I've changed my opinions on lots of things over the years. Maybe you just weren't ready yet? ;-)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 30 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      As an older programmer I plain don't know what "unlearnable bad habits" you're talking about. Did I understand you as saying that writing code in Ruby makes people resistant to code documentation earlier?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 30 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      No, what I'm saying is you will initially learn to count on a person deducing, or a computer to determine at runtime, the state of your program, the pre/post conditions of a function, etc. - which is costly both in computer and human resources, and a habit you must then unlearn.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 30 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      Whereas in go you are forced to understand the pre and post conditions of a function?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 30 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      Type hints. A type hint is just an assertion about the the state of the program. Things are much simpler if you state your assumptions - "this parameter will be a number" helps both a person and a computer understand an important pre condition for a function dealing with numbers.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 30 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk @wycats

      But also (speaking to Ruby and JS specifically) just knowing if an object has a method - rather than looking through every line of code in the system to learn if a method was generated and attached somewhere, at some point. It's not simple for a person, at all.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Dec 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      As opposed to go, where you have to search the program to look for interface definitions that might apply to your object?

      12:00 AM - 1 Dec 2017
      • 1 Like
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      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 1 Dec 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Go has problems, it's not my favorite language - but it is a pretty good language for learning, because of its small scope and encouraging you to think about types. (even though the type system is pretty basic.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 1 Dec 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk @wycats

          (Duck typing in a statically typed language is pretty uncommon - not something you find in most strict languages.)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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