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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017

      After playing a little bit with QBasic when I was a kid, I was given a K&R C book. My takeaway: programming is not for me. I didn't look at programming seriously again until I was 23. This article is terrible advice.https://www.zeroequalsfalse.press/2017/11/29/c/ 

      128 replies 194 retweets 995 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017

      Incidentally, a relative who was really interested in programming went to college and her first course was in C++. It was too much too fast and she quit (and never became a programmer). Unless we're actively trying to reduce the number of programmers, don't start with C or C++.

      37 replies 46 retweets 200 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Jarrod‏ @ProblematicProf 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I've been grappling with this at the undergraduate level (where we do start with C++) for our object oriented course. What do you think are better options? Ruby?

      5 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ProblematicProf

      Ruby, JavaScript. But the main thing is start making things that you can share with others right away. Create a blog and start tweaking it in ways *you want*. There's nothing more motivating in programming than seeing an idea you had in your head take form.

      7 replies 12 retweets 126 likes
    5. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I completely agree with you on C - it's a terrible language. But as a first language, Ruby and Javascript are terrible choices as well - you may have more fun, but you will likely learn how to do everything wrong.https://medium.com/@mindplay/the-problem-with-learning-languages-like-javascript-php-ruby-or-python-first-is-you-can-get-away-7accc689d365 …

      3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      Can you give an example of something "loose" you can get away with in both Ruby and JavaScript that you can't do in Go that you have to spend years to unlearn?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    7. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      Yes, you can learn how to get away with certain wrong things in Go as well, but it's not the first thing you will learn - in Go is easier to do things right, and you have to go deeper to break the rules - in Ruby, JS, Python etc. it's the other way around.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      I really want you to provide me with an example, not just rhetoric.

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
    9. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I don't think my post is at all rhetorical though. In my experience, devs who don't know any of the stricter languages, even if they create working products, tend to write code that no one else can understand. Programming requires discipline - the loose languages don't teach it.

      4 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mindplaydk

      Just so we're clear, your claim is that writing in Ruby and JS teaches you the bad habit of not documenting your functions, which takes years to unlearn, unlike go where types force you from the get-go to properly document your functions?

      10:00 PM - 29 Nov 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          You asked for an example. Obviously it goes much deeper than that - behind stricter languages there is usually a philosophy that is taught and expressed through the possibilities and limitations of the language. In languages like JS or PHP, basically "anything goes".

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk @wycats

          That is, get the syntax right, and you can get away with pretty much any dumb thing you can think of - it puts programmers in permanent "patch mode", and teaches them that that's programming: hack at it until it works. It's not a healthy philosophy to learn.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 30 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          Ruby, for example, has arity checking as well as rejecting implicit coercions approximately as often as Rust. Doesn't this teach developers that anything doesn't go?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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