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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017

      After playing a little bit with QBasic when I was a kid, I was given a K&R C book. My takeaway: programming is not for me. I didn't look at programming seriously again until I was 23. This article is terrible advice.https://www.zeroequalsfalse.press/2017/11/29/c/ 

      128 replies 194 retweets 995 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017

      Incidentally, a relative who was really interested in programming went to college and her first course was in C++. It was too much too fast and she quit (and never became a programmer). Unless we're actively trying to reduce the number of programmers, don't start with C or C++.

      37 replies 46 retweets 200 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Jarrod‏ @ProblematicProf 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I've been grappling with this at the undergraduate level (where we do start with C++) for our object oriented course. What do you think are better options? Ruby?

      5 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
      Replying to @ProblematicProf

      Ruby, JavaScript. But the main thing is start making things that you can share with others right away. Create a blog and start tweaking it in ways *you want*. There's nothing more motivating in programming than seeing an idea you had in your head take form.

      8:50 AM - 29 Nov 2017
      • 12 Retweets
      • 126 Likes
      • Eddie VanBogaert Maciek Jim Jones Dzianis Sheka Jordan Hawker Beth gotting brokeded Max Kreminski 🍂 Ariane ⚧
      7 replies 12 retweets 126 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I completely agree with you on C - it's a terrible language. But as a first language, Ruby and Javascript are terrible choices as well - you may have more fun, but you will likely learn how to do everything wrong.https://medium.com/@mindplay/the-problem-with-learning-languages-like-javascript-php-ruby-or-python-first-is-you-can-get-away-7accc689d365 …

          3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          Can you give an example of something "loose" you can get away with in both Ruby and JavaScript that you can't do in Go that you have to spend years to unlearn?

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Yes, you can learn how to get away with certain wrong things in Go as well, but it's not the first thing you will learn - in Go is easier to do things right, and you have to go deeper to break the rules - in Ruby, JS, Python etc. it's the other way around.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          I really want you to provide me with an example, not just rhetoric.

          2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
        6. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I don't think my post is at all rhetorical though. In my experience, devs who don't know any of the stricter languages, even if they create working products, tend to write code that no one else can understand. Programming requires discipline - the loose languages don't teach it.

          4 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          My experience is that trying to bootstrap with a strict language causes people who could be great programmers to bounce off. I wrote Ruby and JS for years before writing way more code in Rust and TS and I have not experienced years of bad habits to unlearn.

          2 replies 1 retweet 15 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @mindplaydk

          On the other hand, as I said in my original post, sentiments about what it means to be a "real programmer" pushed me off of the path that eventually led me to working on the Rust programming language. So I just disagree with your empirical claim.

          6 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
        9. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 30 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Isn't it possible you just didn't really have the interest or patience when you were younger though? People change. I've changed my opinions on lots of things over the years. Maybe you just weren't ready yet? ;-)

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 8 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Daniel Rochetti‏ @drochetti 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          This is great advice for beginners and I couldn't agree more. But for the context here, which is an object oriented course, I would never recommend Ruby or JS (nor C/C++).

          3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @drochetti

          What would you recommend?

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Daniel Rochetti‏ @drochetti 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I like the Kotlin type system. I believe it represents well the Object Oriented concepts and has a clear and fun syntax. Also, since it's Java compatible, it has a great variety of use cases out of the box.

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        5. Reiichiro Nakano‏ @ReiiYoda 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @drochetti @wycats

          No Python? Python is OO and beginner friendly

          0 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Abramov‏ @dan_abramov 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Everyone is so different. K&R alienated me as a beginner. But so did Ruby. VB and C# got me through thanks to rich tooling and APIs explorable from IDEs.

          1 reply 2 retweets 12 likes
        3. Jarrod‏ @ProblematicProf 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @dan_abramov @wycats

          What do you think it is about Ruby that causes difficulty? The terseness?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Dan Abramov‏ @dan_abramov 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ProblematicProf @wycats

          I can’t explain, it just felt funky to me

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation
        1. Scary Mary Branscombe‏ @marypcbuk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          apposite interview with @ohhoe today ;)https://medium.com/@nodejs/how-i-got-into-node-rachel-white-913671778acc …

          0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
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        1. New conversation
        2. Bernard Igiri‏ @bernardigiri 30 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Ruby, JavaScript, Python, Go, and QBASIC (it still works) are all easy starting points. Possibly Pascal too but I never bothered with it. Still, some may be able to start with C++.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3.  🐝 QB64  🍌 🦍 🏢‏ @QB64team 30 Nov 2017
          Replying to @bernardigiri @wycats

          Hear hear! ❤️

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Jarrod‏ @ProblematicProf 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I agree. A lot of students express to me their desire to make something visually appealing early in the course, which i end up having to explain is not simple at the start of C++, so I definitely see the hindrance here.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Emil Stenström‏ @EmilStenstrom 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ProblematicProf @wycats

          Python is good for beginners too!

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. End of conversation

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