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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017

      After playing a little bit with QBasic when I was a kid, I was given a K&R C book. My takeaway: programming is not for me. I didn't look at programming seriously again until I was 23. This article is terrible advice.https://www.zeroequalsfalse.press/2017/11/29/c/ 

      128 replies 194 retweets 995 likes
      Show this thread
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017

      Incidentally, a relative who was really interested in programming went to college and her first course was in C++. It was too much too fast and she quit (and never became a programmer). Unless we're actively trying to reduce the number of programmers, don't start with C or C++.

      8:46 AM - 29 Nov 2017
      • 46 Retweets
      • 200 Likes
      • AI 🏘 UX PLOW Suzanne Hillman André Z Hauntele Philip Taferner spookitty Dzianis Sheka Jordan Hawker
      37 replies 46 retweets 200 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jarrod‏ @ProblematicProf 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I've been grappling with this at the undergraduate level (where we do start with C++) for our object oriented course. What do you think are better options? Ruby?

          5 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @ProblematicProf

          Ruby, JavaScript. But the main thing is start making things that you can share with others right away. Create a blog and start tweaking it in ways *you want*. There's nothing more motivating in programming than seeing an idea you had in your head take form.

          7 replies 12 retweets 126 likes
        4. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I completely agree with you on C - it's a terrible language. But as a first language, Ruby and Javascript are terrible choices as well - you may have more fun, but you will likely learn how to do everything wrong.https://medium.com/@mindplay/the-problem-with-learning-languages-like-javascript-php-ruby-or-python-first-is-you-can-get-away-7accc689d365 …

          3 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          Can you give an example of something "loose" you can get away with in both Ruby and JavaScript that you can't do in Go that you have to spend years to unlearn?

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        6. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Yes, you can learn how to get away with certain wrong things in Go as well, but it's not the first thing you will learn - in Go is easier to do things right, and you have to go deeper to break the rules - in Ruby, JS, Python etc. it's the other way around.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          I really want you to provide me with an example, not just rhetoric.

          2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
        8. Rasmus Schultz‏ @mindplaydk 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I don't think my post is at all rhetorical though. In my experience, devs who don't know any of the stricter languages, even if they create working products, tend to write code that no one else can understand. Programming requires discipline - the loose languages don't teach it.

          4 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @mindplaydk

          My experience is that trying to bootstrap with a strict language causes people who could be great programmers to bounce off. I wrote Ruby and JS for years before writing way more code in Rust and TS and I have not experienced years of bad habits to unlearn.

          2 replies 1 retweet 15 likes
        10. 10 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Fernando‏ @Zomaotoko 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Which programming language do you recommend? I've heard about colleges where they use Python o JS, do you think it is a better choice? Also, I've read in some blogs about start learning a functional language like Haskell is even better, but I'm not sure that helps

          2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @Zomaotoko

          I think Ruby, JS are good. I've personally not taught Python but I can believe it's good for this.

          2 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @Zomaotoko

          The most important thing is to build something you can share with others right away. A blog you can customize with code is a great choice.

          1 reply 1 retweet 15 likes
        5. 2 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Aaron Patterson‏Verified account @tenderlove 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          I like C, but I think it’s a terrible way for people to find out if they are interested in programming.

          3 replies 0 retweets 44 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @tenderlove

          Bingo.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        4. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. ᛚᛖᛁᚠ Warner‏ @pdxleif 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          They teach C++ as the first language at PCC and PSU here. I wonder if it's a hazing thing? I learned some Python on my own for an assignment just to have a segfault-free development experience.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @pdxleif

          When I was at Brooklyn College (my early 20s) I took a couple intro CS classes that started with C. I didn't even hate it but there was so much song and dance to learn the basics. I felt "CS seems so theoretical" and switched to accounting :p

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Mike North  🤯‏ @michaellnorth 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          C and pointers almost made me abort programming entirely.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Ankit‏ @akionet5 29 Nov 2017
          Replying to @michaellnorth @wycats

          This might true for thousands of people. First language, friendly textbooks , scope and application of Lang are important. Unfortunately education system still focus on few Langs, generalized textbooks, narrow scope.

          0 replies 2 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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