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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
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@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 13 Nov 2017

      Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩) Retweeted

      No. In fact we're actually realizing the way we used to ship code was egregiously slow, inaccessible, and no interoperable. Welcome to front end _Engineering_. https://twitter.com/ben_howdle/status/930012526628110337 …

      Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩) added,

      This Tweet is unavailable.
      13 replies 74 retweets 377 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2017
      Replying to @TheLarkInn

      Basically "maybe you're overthinking front-end" is just another way of saying that front-end isn't "serious programming". In no other part of software development do people start sneering that a few dozen k of library code and a compiler is overengineering.

      10:32 PM - 13 Nov 2017
      • 114 Retweets
      • 379 Likes
      • Michael Shane Kim Joar Bekkelund Jani Soila Jayasurian Makkoth Jan Hoogeveen Jade Misenas Johnny Robeson Ondřej Kašpar Fernando Aguilar
      14 replies 114 retweets 379 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Exactly. This is exactly what I mean. No one holds every other compiler/lib toolchains to build size, perf, or speed as heavily as Web either. Think if C++ developers couldn't ship more then 200kb of binary.

          3 replies 1 retweet 45 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @TheLarkInn

          Yes, let's insist that people write real-time, 60fps, instant-loading-on-2g, distributed software without a compiler or significant runtime. Then, when people try to make those things, tell them they're overthinking it. 🤔🤨

          2 replies 5 retweets 51 likes
        4. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Yeah they should go back to when server side was easy and you could just write assembly, 1s, 0s, and SigV, and just reload.......pic.twitter.com/PYCQS8ZZrZ

          1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
        5. Richard Torruellas‏ @richardiii 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @TheLarkInn @wycats

          Omg that thread is painful

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2017
          Replying to @richardiii @TheLarkInn

          Back in the good old days the C++ developers pushed bits uphill both ways. You kids with your 20k of libraries and fancy pants compilers have it so easy. Yawn.

          0 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Dan Bucholtz‏ @danbucholtz 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @TheLarkInn

          Agreed. My opinion is it is considered too complicated because there’s not “one true way”. Imagine Android without a proper SDK, testing support, etc. If it all relied on 3rd parties, it’d feel the same as the web

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @danbucholtz @TheLarkInn

          But the fact that nobody goes around making people feel guilty for using libraries in Android makes a difference.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        4. Dan Bucholtz‏ @danbucholtz 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @TheLarkInn

          No disagreement there. It's just so weird to me that there is no "here's how you build an app, here's how you test code, etc" from the big players.

          4 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Joseph Dylan Stewart‏ @jdylanstewart 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @danbucholtz @wycats @TheLarkInn

          What you're asking for is convention over configuration. Which is what we have with things like Django, rails, etc.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Dan Bucholtz‏ @danbucholtz 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @jdylanstewart @wycats @TheLarkInn

          By a major company, yes.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 15 Nov 2017
          Replying to @danbucholtz @jdylanstewart @TheLarkInn

          Why does it need to be by a major company? We have stuff like Angular, Polymer, React. I'm happy stuff like Ember exists despite not being by a bigco.

          4 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        8. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 15 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @danbucholtz @jdylanstewart

          Not to mention vital tooling and infrastructure like babel webpack lodash, blah blah, and fire catching like vue.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis 15 Nov 2017
          Replying to @TheLarkInn @wycats and

          Not sure Babel's the best example for you here - the (heroic) maintainers are chronically under-funded and overworked. Its one of the best examples of why I think the OSS model is so profoundly broken and un-maintainable.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        10. 2 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. idiot_girl‏ @idiot_girl 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @marypcbuk @TheLarkInn

          I think the tweet kind of should be more about how the “community” has overly obfuscated front-end programming and raised the wall as a barrier to entry w/ complication, obfuscation, and lack of explainations.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @idiot_girl @wycats @marypcbuk

          Pretty please, if you have examples, and they are issues with our project (#webpack), please don't hesitate to reach out. We want 0 of this across all our projects.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. idiot_girl‏ @idiot_girl 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @TheLarkInn @wycats @marypcbuk

          You can start with better describing what exactly #webpack is. Someone who does basic front-end javascript like interactions/animations, etc doesn't know what a "module loader" does or is. Does it run on the server to compile or in the browser?

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        5. idiot_girl‏ @idiot_girl 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @idiot_girl @TheLarkInn and

          That is quite literally one of the biggest gripes I have with all of the various front-end tools. No one says the obvious, which is not really obvious in a world of new serverless/stateless programming.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @idiot_girl @wycats @marypcbuk

          Okay so honest question, how far back should we go? Because: If I say Module Bundler: => Let's you write modules that work in the browser You should write modules => Because people love organizing, preventing scope creep, etc. History of Modules => ???

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. idiot_girl‏ @idiot_girl 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @TheLarkInn @wycats @marypcbuk

          Wow... I can't tell if you are asking for real or being sarcastic, because I don't think what I presented was *that* ridiculous.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @idiot_girl @wycats @marypcbuk

          No I'm being 100% serious!!! webpack exists to let you write modules that work in the browser, on top of that it has a set of other layers that you can add to it, but primarily a module bundler There is still a number of folks who've never used / written modules.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Sean Thomas Larkin (肖恩)‏ @TheLarkInn 14 Nov 2017
          Replying to @TheLarkInn @idiot_girl and

          Something that one the inside that scares me, is that when we show webpack, and then teach people first: Modules, type of modules, and why you use webpack and it works the best with modules, then we lose people from diving too deep. So I really want to find the right middle.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 9 more replies

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