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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Michael Langford‏ @mj_langford 5 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      It’s an expensive platform to build tools for that interop with unix. Path differentials alone eat up days for tiny bugs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Nov 2017
      Replying to @mj_langford

      Calling OSX "Unix" for this is a sleight of hand. It's a fork of BSD from the 90s. You're underestimating the shims you're standing on.

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    3. James Nugent‏ @jen20 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @mj_langford

      You realise that OSX is the only mainstream certified UNIX in common use, right? It LITERALLY IS a UNIX.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @jen20 @mj_langford

      "certified Unix" is not what literally anyone targets.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

      "Certified Unix" is like an MCSE certification for software.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    6. James Nugent‏ @jen20 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @mj_langford

      If people target Linux, SAY Linux. Do not contribute to the semantic mushiness which is already rife.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @jen20 @mj_langford

      I put unix in quotes ("for this" referring to interop). Was responding to someone who said "interop with Unix"

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

      People target nothing specific. They just add workarounds for platforms they feel morally willing to work with.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. James Nugent‏ @jen20 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @mj_langford

      People target POSIX, Linux or MacOS (occasionally BSD or Windows, too). People who know what they are doing know what they are targeting.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @jen20 @mj_langford

      That's just not true. Almost every real system targets epoll/kqueue, which are non-standard interfaces.

      3 replies 2 retweets 5 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
      Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

      For the longest time, people said they couldn't support Windows because there was no equiv of epoll/kqueue. False: IOCP can shim it.

      9:20 AM - 6 Nov 2017
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

          Epoll and kqueue aren't even particularly similar. OSX has old-school (90s) signals, Linux has signalfd. Real apps use signals.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

          People target OSX-specific linker behavior (namespaced symbols) by accident all the time, also cargo cult Linux incantations.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

          These same people often don't bother to learn how the Windows linker work, even "people who know what they're doing"

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. James Nugent‏ @jen20 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @mj_langford

          That may be true, but it was always a garbage argument. We have event ports, there are lots of ways to support all models.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @jen20 @mj_langford

          Right. Exactly. I'm saying that Linux+OSX=Unix is actually causing the exact confusion you were worried about.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. James Nugent‏ @jen20 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @mj_langford

          I don't use UNIX to mean that. You shouldn't either. Writing portable code is not hard. Fucked if I'm going to test it on Windows though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. James Nugent‏ @jen20 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @jen20 @wycats @mj_langford

          I did _so much_ interoperability work at HashiCorp (not least for Windows) that I'm prepared to say this unequivocally: Windows is harder.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @jen20 @mj_langford

          1: I think it's hard to unravel the lived experience of "Windows is harder" which I of course agree with, and "there are fewer existing

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

          2: infrastructure pieces that already support Windows", which imo is a big part of why it feels harder. I also have done a ton of interop

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

          3: work, including doing the design for the Rust time stdlib and helping with the Rust nix (Unix shim) and mio libraries in the early days

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Nov 2017
          Replying to @wycats @jen20 @mj_langford

          4/4: I this it's unquestionable that the experience of supporting Windows is harder. The question to ask is why.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 23 more replies

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