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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

Tweets

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @seldo @meat

      pic.twitter.com/mVQOHWOk7T

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Laurie Voss‏ @seldo 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @meat

      By calling serverless highly scalable I did not mean to imply that former web apps do not scale :-)

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @seldo @wycats

      i’d guess that JS’s success in serverless is due more to the ability to embed and sandbox it, which makes life easier for hosting providers

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @meat @seldo

      Sandbox in what sense?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @seldo

      it’s trivial to restrict access to file system and other OS functions, which makes it safer to run other people’s code in your environment

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @meat @wycats @seldo

      it’s been a feature of the language from day 0, as opposed to Ruby/Python/etc which aren’t designed for running untrusted code

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @meat @seldo

      Heroku has used Linux sandboxing facilities to implement this concept for ages: https://12factor.net/processes  (Heroku apps are 12 factor)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @meat @seldo

      "Serverless" postdates LXC and Docker so "easy to sandbox" can't be the distinction, right?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @seldo

      i think it’s that you can avoid process startup overhead and may even not need to fully sandbox at the OS level

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @meat @seldo

      You still need to sandbox because JS isn't useful without some exposed OS guts and security is hard ;)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @meat @seldo

      My hypothesis is: 1. Serverless is, more or less, definitionally about JS 2. It's popular because JS is popular and empowering

      6:36 PM - 19 Oct 2017
      • 3 Retweets
      • 18 Likes
      • Paari 𝕺𝖓𝖞𝖝𝕽𝖆𝖛𝖊𝖓 Daniel Westendorf Alec Resnick Fabricio Longhi Alec Perkins 10 PRINT Bob Corsaro; 20 GOTO 10 Tian Davis [天] Pumpkin Spice Agony
      5 replies 3 retweets 18 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Laurie Voss‏ @seldo 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @meat

          I think the extremely fast startup time of a container running node was crucial to the order of magnitude change I mentioned.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Laurie Voss‏ @seldo 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @seldo @wycats @meat

          You could have done it with PHP but as you say JS (and node) are more popular with the up-stack devs this appeals to.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @seldo @wycats

          i think the time to market for a serverless JS offering is also just way shorter, because of status of embedding hooks as 1st class citizens

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @meat @seldo

          I don't understand this argument.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @seldo

          i just think JS was the prime language to pioneer the serverless space, all the way from the implementation to the community

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @meat @seldo

          In contrast, I think "serverless" as a term means"JavaScript" so this claim is tautological.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        8. Marco Rogers‏ @polotek 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @meat @seldo

          I don’t understand why you would say this.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        9. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @meat @seldo

          Trying to explain "serverless" as new obscures the simple fact that millions of developers who know jQuery can write backend logic.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @meat @seldo

          The same thing that made Node popular, but with the added benefit of getting back to the ease of ops that PHP had a decade ago.

          3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        4. Laurie Voss‏ @seldo 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @meat

          That is a very insightful observation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @seldo @meat

          Aw shucks.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. hh‏ @BinEatsBabies 22 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @da5ch0 and

          1. How tf is JS empowering? 2. Why can't JS just die already? 3. Can we kill whoever invented full stack JS?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. ḏ̘͊ͅa̮ͩ̓͗̌s̬͐̑ͅh̟̤̭͍͍̔̿ͭ͒́‏ @da5ch0 22 Oct 2017
          Replying to @BinEatsBabies @wycats and

          1. Lots of available APIs and source snippets of code to work with w/o needing to be wildly experienced 2. Language isn’t innately evil 3.pic.twitter.com/BzcoQtXyMW

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. hh‏ @BinEatsBabies 22 Oct 2017
          Replying to @da5ch0 @wycats and

          1. I always consider JS infuriating, not empowering. 2. Sure it is. 3.pic.twitter.com/Rp7yu4QOOL

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. ḏ̘͊ͅa̮ͩ̓͗̌s̬͐̑ͅh̟̤̭͍͍̔̿ͭ͒́‏ @da5ch0 22 Oct 2017
          Replying to @BinEatsBabies @wycats and

          1. You’ve probably been fortunate enough to have (nicer) options 2. Good programming is not language-dependent, it’s design-dependent 3.pic.twitter.com/tGgFJsfj1T

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. hh‏ @BinEatsBabies 22 Oct 2017
          Replying to @da5ch0 @wycats and

          Tbh I don't really do programming. The reason I hate JS is bc when debugging websites 99% of the time it's some stupid JS issue.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. ḏ̘͊ͅa̮ͩ̓͗̌s̬͐̑ͅh̟̤̭͍͍̔̿ͭ͒́‏ @da5ch0 21 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @meat @seldo

          Now I feel less crazy for coming to the same conclusion when I researched the term to try and figure out what the big deal was with it. 😂

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
          Thanks. Twitter will use this to make your timeline better. Undo
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        1. New conversation
        2. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @seldo

          i’d say it’s explained more by the economics/capitalism of it being convenient and cost-effective for hosts

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Pumpkin Spice Agony‏ @meat 19 Oct 2017
          Replying to @meat @wycats @seldo

          you could also build a serverless offering very easily around Lua but the community/demand isn’t there

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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