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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @awbjs @ljharb and

      Not dynamic scope: a dead outer activation causes return from block lambda to throw. Dynamic scope analogy would be return from unrelated!

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    2. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @BrendanEich @ljharb and

      let b= ƛ(v){if (v) break; else continue}; are these different: forEach(c, b); forEach(c, ƛ(v){if (v) break; else continue});

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @awbjs @ljharb and

      Correspondence principle deal is program equivalence: while(1)break === while(1)({|| break})(). Variable abstraction independent/composes.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @BrendanEich @ljharb and

      Too hard to show on twitter. Have to get into guts of forEach, etc. to show how they compose. My pdf was a start.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @awbjs @ljharb and

      Yes, agree this exposes/specifies “guts” - one reason among several that block lambdas failed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @BrendanEich @awbjs and

      Give me another chance and I'll fight my ass off. Otherwise, the frequent justifications for the decision aren't that helpful.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @BrendanEich and

      The decision is made. That's, in practice, enough. We're not gonna have arrows and block lambdas.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @BrendanEich and

      Yes done deal. Mostly showing that considerable thought+experience preceded decisions.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @awbjs @BrendanEich and

      I don't buy the idea that JS is *so* different from Smalltalk and Ruby. Ruby has C-style control flow too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats @awbjs and

      Ruby has lambda vs http://Proc.new  gratuitous split. Also Ruby far from static C in semantics. I gave Block Lambdas my best shot.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
      Replying to @BrendanEich @awbjs and

      Gratuitous split but maybe worth it.

      6:19 PM - 9 Oct 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. BrendanEich‏Verified account @BrendanEich 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @awbjs and

          Unfalsifiable faith-article. Consider C switch fall through hazard, real world comp.risks cost. Ruby dead frame return throw bug experience?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @BrendanEich @awbjs and

          Very little dead frame return issues. Has to do with whether you're taught blocks as functions or something else.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @BrendanEich and

          Dead frames not the problem. Instead a layering issue wrt nested user and language defined ctl abstractions. Some day I'll show you

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @awbjs @BrendanEich and

          I know the issue about `break` needing N frames depending on how layered the abstraction is. Is that what you mean?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Allen Wirfs-Brock‏ @awbjs 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @BrendanEich and

          Not a matter of frame counting b/c block creation site does know nature or depth of ctl abstraction function impl.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @awbjs @BrendanEich and

          Right. I agree this is a wart. Doubt it's fatal.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @awbjs and

          break should break (like exception) to a unique labelled continuation, created for each block. continue should return the block.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 9 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @awbjs and

          iow break is like a smaller-scoped return. Both can desugar into an escape continuation with appropriate scope.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 2 more replies

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