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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Feross  🧙🏼‍♂️ ✨‏ @feross 5 Oct 2017

      License Zero: a new "mostly open source" license that shifts the power balance toward maintainers so we can get paid https://writing.kemitchell.com/2017/09/12/The-License-Zero-Manifesto.html …

      11 replies 100 retweets 183 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
      Replying to @feross

      What is the definition of "mostly open source"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Feross  🧙🏼‍♂️ ✨‏ @feross 5 Oct 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I made up the term. The idea is that non-commercial users get a BSD 2-clause license but commercial users pay small fee for a license.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Feross  🧙🏼‍♂️ ✨‏ @feross 5 Oct 2017
      Replying to @feross @wycats

      A CLI tool automates figuring out how much to pay / who to pay it to / produces a signed file as proof (in case of dispute later).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Feross  🧙🏼‍♂️ ✨‏ @feross 5 Oct 2017
      Replying to @feross @wycats

      There is no DRM, nothing onerous. Clear prices/terms for commercial users. You can also grant free BSD-2 use to collaborators/friends easily

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
      Replying to @feross

      I have no objection to this license existing, but: 1. Don't call it OSS. 2. I won't use it for my work. 3. I won't depend on it in my work.

      7:46 PM - 5 Oct 2017
      • 4 Likes
      • Adam Hesim Domenic Denicola ໓ฯlคຖ ໓p¢ Miloš Sutanovac
      4 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Feross  🧙🏼‍♂️ ✨‏ @feross 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats

          Congrats, bro

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @feross

          Sounds sarcastic. It seems ok for me to give my position on something.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Dave Wasmer‏ @davewasmer 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross

          Really curious if you have an opinion on how to get paid for OSS w/ permissive licenses. Is it just “consult/train/etc”, or something else?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @davewasmer @feross

          For open source projects with enough usage for any model to work, a coalition of companies that each dedicate some headcount to the project.

          1 reply 3 retweets 2 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @davewasmer @feross

          In order for this to work, companies already have to be invested in the project, and non-permissive licenses work against that goal.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @davewasmer @feross

          1: I'd also add that OSS works better when contributors are working on (or closely with) real world applications of the OSS.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @davewasmer @feross

          2: So you get benefits from large apps dedicating headcount and staff time to improving the OSS they use.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @davewasmer @feross

          3/3: And you don't need every company using the OSS to contribute back in order for this model to work.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @davewasmer @feross

          TLDR people drastically undercount the $ in existing allocated headcount when talking about the alleged "open source funding crisis"

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Dave Wasmer‏ @davewasmer 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross

          That approach seems viable - but also seems to let a lot of value generation go uncaptured. Not making an “it’s not fair” argument, but /1

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 8 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Kyle E. Mitchell‏ @kemitchell 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross

          L0-NC isn't OSD-conformant, isn't OSI-approved, and never will be. L0 is very clear on that point. At the same time, rare is the dev who's heard of OSD. That's not what "open source" means to most today.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @kemitchell @feross

          L0 isn't close to what many people think open source is. Call it "source available" if you need a description.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Kyle E. Mitchell‏ @kemitchell 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross

          I agree with your tweet. But I don't think copyleft software, or even permissive-licensed software with attribution conditions, is close to what many ill-informed people think "open source" means, either.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @kemitchell @feross

          I don't think copyleft is functional OSS. I wrote this years ago on the topic of copyleft (it's applicable):https://www.google.com/amp/yehudakatz.com/2010/01/05/the-maximal-usage-doctrine-for-open-source/amp/ …

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Kyle E. Mitchell‏ @kemitchell 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross

          Interesting piece. If I have one criticism, it boils down to the fact that the words "money", "support", "sustain", "job", "hire", and "pay" don't appear anywhere in it. They're not variables in any of the equations in the system you're solving.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Kyle E. Mitchell‏ @kemitchell 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @kemitchell @wycats @feross

          "So Open Source licenses make amazing tools of selfless, total generosity, if you come from a situation free of worldly concern, and that’s giving you can afford."https://licensezero.com/manifesto 

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @kemitchell @feross

          For reference, I grew up poor, and was making barely a living wage a year before I started contributing to OSS.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 6 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @kemitchell @feross

          So I don't think this analysis is quite correct. OSS can help uplift some people (but not all people) through career advancement.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 8 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Kyle E. Mitchell‏ @kemitchell 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross

          I've proposed a stronger-than-AGPL copyleft license, approved as an option for dual licensing through @LicenseZero, to OSI for review. It's in development. But I believe it will be OSD-conformant.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @kemitchell @feross @LicenseZero

          1: These kinds of dual licenses have the problem the original GPL was trying to combat: someone who contributes to such a project ...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @kemitchell and

          2/2: may nevertheless be unable to use it in their new job unless they can convince the CFO of their company to shell out.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Kyle E. Mitchell‏ @kemitchell 5 Oct 2017
          Replying to @wycats @feross @LicenseZero

          Noncommercial licenses cross OSD field-of-use nondiscrimination and Free Software freedom 0. No surprise there. The draft reciprocal public license option is the better analogy to GPL: https://github.com/licensezero/licensezero-reciprocal-public-license/blob/simplify/LICENSE.mustache …

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        6. End of conversation

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