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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. @c̲hris̲epps̲tein‏ @chriseppstein 14 Sep 2017

      There's an *awful lot* of JavaScript that exists solely because the developer didn't know CSS well enough.

      57 replies 799 retweets 2,191 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
      Replying to @chriseppstein

      There's a meme in the JS ecosystem that CSS is abominable and all its troubles would be fixed by making it a real boy. It's a strong meme.

      1 reply 5 retweets 28 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
      Replying to @wycats @chriseppstein

      I'm glad you're pushing back against it, but omg the number of times ppl have cargo culted the claim that CSS would be better as a real PL.

      1 reply 2 retweets 23 likes
    4. @c̲hris̲epps̲tein‏ @chriseppstein 14 Sep 2017
      Replying to @wycats

      I talked about this in my last conference talk. My feelings on it are nuanced ;) A Turing Complete css runtime would be bad for browsers.

      3 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
      Replying to @chriseppstein

      I think it comes down to the Rule of Least Power. We need some more abstraction tools, but that doesn't imply a general purpose PL.

      8:18 AM - 14 Sep 2017
      • 7 Likes
      • Jake Dohm Sam Havens yami Sibelius Seraphini Bradley Farias John F. Miller @c̲hris̲epps̲tein
      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Bradley Farias‏ @bradleymeck 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @chriseppstein

          This, I avoid a CSS in complex situations because it doesn't abstract/encapsulate well in my experiences.

          3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        3. @c̲hris̲epps̲tein‏ @chriseppstein 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @bradleymeck @wycats

          That's a problem I'd like to address through better CSS tooling.

          3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Bradley Farias‏ @bradleymeck 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @chriseppstein @wycats

          We have been using SASS for ages, but I don't see much progress on this. Do you have ideas on how to move forward on this?

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        5. @c̲hris̲epps̲tein‏ @chriseppstein 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @bradleymeck @wycats

          I do.

          2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
        6. Alex Kras‏ @akras14 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @chriseppstein @bradleymeck @wycats

          I agree with every word you said, but with real deadlines people don't have days to figure out CSS way, when it can be done in JS in 5 min.

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @akras14 @chriseppstein @bradleymeck

          Some situations are quick in JS in 5m, some situations introduce tons of complexity in JS in 5m you pay off for years and years.

          1 reply 0 retweets 17 likes
        8. Alex Kras‏ @akras14 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @chriseppstein @bradleymeck

          Agreed, but under pressure many cave in and forget big picture. We need better culture and better tooling. Help dev fall into pit of success

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @akras14 @chriseppstein @bradleymeck

          Cause of my career man :)

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        10. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Gorgi Kosev‏ @spion 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @chriseppstein

          Given a sufficiently good type system, is the rule of least power still applicable?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @spion @chriseppstein

          It is, but Rule of Least Power becomes an API design guideline rather than a PL guideline.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @spion @chriseppstein

          Haskellers would say don't pass the state or io Monad around gratuitously. RoLP is saying if a PL makes that hard, don't always use it.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Gorgi Kosev‏ @spion 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @chriseppstein

          the problem of ROLP is that you can't do anything in that nice little edge case where you do need more power to save you days of work 😄

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @spion @chriseppstein

          But if you model it using types, you'll see that the Io Monad has now leaked into the rest of your program ;)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @spion @chriseppstein

          Which will take days to refactor.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @spion @chriseppstein

          I feel like it's a pipe dream to have an ergonomic general purpose PL that satisfies the spectrum of PoLP but won't dismiss it out of hand.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. End of conversation

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