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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

Tweets

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    1. Malte Ubl, Immigrant‏Verified account @cramforce 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @lawnsea @wycats

      Right. Pre-rendering can only be done if the publisher cannot know that it is happening. Fingerprinting is one side channel to know.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Malte Ubl, Immigrant‏Verified account @cramforce 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @cramforce @lawnsea @wycats

      To be clear: it is ok for the pub to know that pre-rendering happens. Just not that it happens to you.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. old, yet online‏ @lawnsea 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @cramforce @wycats

      so, the fingerprinting would occur when the page is pre-rendered for display by search?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. old, yet online‏ @lawnsea 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @lawnsea @cramforce @wycats

      ah. i see. the page is pre-rendered when my search results are displayed and the page runs some js that tells the publisher about it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. old, yet online‏ @lawnsea 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @lawnsea @cramforce @wycats

      so they learn that i searched for a term that they are indexed for, but not what my search was?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Malte Ubl, Immigrant‏Verified account @cramforce 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @lawnsea @wycats

      Imagine you search for diarrhea, FooMD gets pre-rendered and you click Wikipedia. Now you go to $site and see re-targeting ads for diarrhea

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @cramforce @lawnsea

      I think it would be acceptable to explore a path that didn't allow the HTML page to run any JS, and restricted it to a worker.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. old, yet online‏ @lawnsea 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @wycats @cramforce

      i'm not optimistic that workers will be resistant to fingerprinting: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/OffscreenCanvas …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @lawnsea @cramforce

      Deferring JS until actual rendering might be a better approach.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. old, yet online‏ @lawnsea 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @wycats @cramforce

      yep, but then the perf guarantees are far weaker. hmm this is an interesting one.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
      Replying to @lawnsea @cramforce

      The real issue is AMP circumvents this issue by centralizing allowed JS through approved (but nonstandard) WCs.

      8:19 AM - 1 Sep 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @lawnsea @cramforce

          You can't make AMP work with just platform features, and Google isn't willing to trust "just anyone" with the power of JS, so here we are

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @lawnsea @cramforce

          The answer really cannot be "we trust Google to vet all JS that works in this context".

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. old, yet online‏ @lawnsea 1 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @cramforce

          right. nor is the answer "eventually all sites are amp" i think the amp team is acting in good faith. i wish there was more transparency.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
          Replying to @lawnsea @cramforce

          I've said so repeatedly. But the amount of concentrated power makes it easy for bad outcomes to slip through the cracks.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @lawnsea @cramforce

          AMP defers to search policy as out of scope for OSS project repeatedly.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 1 Sep 2017
          Replying to @wycats @lawnsea @cramforce

          I don't think they're acting in bad faith, but there's too much complexity around various levers of power for ppl to get it right.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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