1A Use opinionated framework 1B Pick a set of libraries 2 Build apps 3A Wish for flexibility 3B Wish for curation 4 Switch places, goto 1
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I’ve heard from people who migrate both ways and were happy. I think it’s oscillation and great to have both options.
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@dan_abramov@wycats 1. Use opinionated framework 2. build app 3. wish for flexibility 4. improve based on learning inspired by wishes -
yeah that's one path. And people in reality keep switching paths.
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you're allowed to say that without sounding partisan. The truth is plenty of ppl don't oscillate.
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I know a lot of ppl who get extremely frustrated with opinionated frameworks that they never switch back.
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of course that can happen. Nobody claims that every opinionated framework is good for every project.
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the argument is that focusing on evolving projects towards flexibility needed by real users is progress.
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the counterpoint has almost no theory of progress at all, evidenced by the oscillation frustration.
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correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you involved with building Ember? That's sort of me calling Spotify "not confusing"
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this wasn't about confusion, it was about the idea that oscillation is essential.
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I meant that you get both flexibility and curation as the author of a major framework.
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as the author of an open source framework, the flexibility can only come if it's shared with the rest of the community
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I saw the tweet being about FW *users* searching for the elusive silver bullet rather than improving the gun
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yeah I agree. I just find that at least for Ember, we get a great deal of improving the gun.
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It was true about jQuery as well, even before total dominance.
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fundamentally it's about community values: the oscillation comes from a missing evolution value imo.
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no offense (and was great to see you at
#fullstackcon yesterday) but Ember is super opinionated. Like... about many things. -
sure, but the implication that ember users leave in droves and vacillate back and forth isn't quite right.
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that's not to say it never happens of course. But quite a few ppl are comfortable evolving together as a community.
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right and I don't think you see droves moving for most frameworks, but that's certainly a cycle of a framework user who moves on.
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I don't think it's a bad thing btw. Certainly not a reflection on the framework. It's just a cycle of use.
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there's a difference between moving around from time to time and frenetically hopping as a way to make progress.
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that's, of course, true but I didn't get the sense that Dan's tweet was about frenetic change so much as a general ongoing cycle
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like... it's a common (anti)pattern of dissatisfaction
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