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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016

      If JavaScript represents its source as a string, and a string is a primitive data type in JS, and eval(string) evaluates a program... 1/

      2 replies 2 retweets 15 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016

      Why isn't JavaScript considered homoiconic? 2/2

      1:32 PM - 20 Apr 2016
      • 2 Retweets
      • 5 Likes
      • Vasco Dias Alice Hertz 😈 random_RER /dev/sad Ming Liu Timo Rantalaiho Karl Mikkelsen
      16 replies 2 retweets 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. deech‏ @deech 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats Given a JS, I would like a JS function that adds 'a' in the middle of its argument list. No cheating with strings. :)

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. deech‏ @deech 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @deech

          @wycats The awkwardness of this function is inversely proportional to the homoiconicity of JavaScript.

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @deech

          @deech if I'm allowed to use the parseToSexp(source) and sexpToSource(sexp) functions (which are clearly possible) no problem!

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @deech "no cheating with strings" is begging the question! I'm saying strings satisfy the eval(source) requirement.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. deech‏ @deech 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats I think I get your point that homoiconic is fuzzy. Clearly there's a spectrum between "I look like myself" and "I can eval myself".

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 21 Apr 2016
          Replying to @deech

          @deech yeah I think the term adds more heat than light.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 21 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @deech it also doesn't provide a good framework for understanding the importance of http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2371420 …, which is sad.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 21 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @deech but "to make macros, I need read(JS) but it's hard" does.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Killin’ Nardi‏ @knardi 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats The syntax doesn't mirror the AST like e.g. lisps do. A lisp basically encodes the tree structure in text, but JS does not.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @knardi

          @knardi Shouldn't the AST be defined by what's passed to `(eval source)`? The JS source format is `string`

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Killin’ Nardi‏ @knardi 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats I see what you're saying, but I feel like the important part is the ability to directly manipulate programs at the semantic level.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @knardi

          @knardi seems like as long as there's read(#<source>) -> #<sexp>, serialize(#<sexp>) -> #<source> and eval(#<source>), same expressiveness

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Killin’ Nardi‏ @knardi 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats I would add one more requirement—that one can easily manipulate #<sexp> to change its semantics

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @knardi

          @knardi sounds fine. It's clearly possible to write that read() function for JS source :)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Myron Marston‏ @myronmarston 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats Presumably, a string of JS source does not resemble its AST.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @myronmarston

          @myronmarston the JavaScript spec does not define an AST, but it does define the processing model of primitive source. The string is the AST

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Felipe O. Carvalho‏ @_Felipe 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats because you still have to parse the string and then interpret it. In lisp you can interpret the already parsed S-expression

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @_Felipe

          @_Felipe you interpret a JS source by evalling the source string. No intermediate steps.

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Felipe O. Carvalho‏ @_Felipe 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats I see what you mean. But how can I have access to the objects defined by the syntax?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Daniel Spiewak‏ @djspiewak 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats @bodil But I don't think there's a strong rigorous definition here beyond "it's not Lisp".

          1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @djspiewak

          @djspiewak @bodil I think it's more useful to talk about the primitive functions and how hard they are to write than the term :)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @djspiewak @bodil read(lispSource) is very easy; read(jsSource) is harder

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. schrepfler‏ @schrepfler 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @wycats

          @wycats @djspiewak @bodil JavaScript is like a drag queen - beautiful, even though you're not 100% sure in which category to frame him/her.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. 1000 years of COBOL‏ @modernserf 20 Apr 2016
          Replying to @schrepfler

          @schrepfler that's not cool, buddy

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation

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