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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015

    Complaints against curl <https-url> | sh in favor of downloading a pkg are the equivalent of requiring shoes off at TSA. Security theater.

    11:53 AM - 4 Oct 2015
    • 67 Retweets
    • 102 Likes
    • isaacspooky 💙💜💖🏳️‍🌈 Sha1 Brandon Sven Fuchs '(King . Cons) Jeremy Ted Han ★ std::mem::transmute_copy(steve, lol) JoshuaTS 👟
    12 replies 67 retweets 102 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Dmitry Kalyanov‏ @dmitry_vk 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats 1) CAs are sometimes MITMed (e.g., by vendor) 2) packages guarantee that the version content hadn't changed

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @dmitry_vk

        @dmitry_vk how? I download packages via HTTP(S) too. Same MITM applies.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Dmitry Kalyanov‏ @dmitry_vk 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats pkg manager actually validate the package content; that's strictly stronger guarantee.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @dmitry_vk

        @dmitry_vk not OSX .pkg, and not PPAs, both of which are used when | sh makes sense.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @dmitry_vk or do you feel as strongly that you should not use PPAs as you do about| sh?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Dmitry Kalyanov‏ @dmitry_vk 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I'm actually more comfortable with PPA/.deb/.ebuild not b/c of security; pkg mgr prevents a lot of bugs of custom installers

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @dmitry_vk

        @dmitry_vk it's pretty easy to mess up your PPA and I've experienced that.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @dmitry_vk but now we're pretty far from the knee jerk "stupidest idea in the world, LOL what idiots" response I was reacting to.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 3 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Uhlan Mask‏ @Rzhevsky 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats 'curl ...' OK. 'sudo curl ...' Hell no. Not so much about malicious intent as about breaking and crufting my system.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @Rzhevsky

        @Rzhevsky but you're OK with downloading .pkg and entering your password?

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Tweet unavailable
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @salkin

        @salkin @Rzhevsky I install unsigned .pkg's from Github release pages pretty often, sadly.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Tweet unavailable
      7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @salkin

        @salkin unfortunately, publishing to all 473 package systems is pretty painful, and Unix has a pretty good universal setup.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @salkin if package managers were less of a political morass, maybe better answers would be available.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @salkin folks running package managers don't realize the cost/benefit of arcana, I suspect.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Christopher Anderson‏ @nvll 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats @knowtheory installing unknown software is harmful. It's the direct pipe to sh without any verification that is the problem here

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @nvll

        @nvll @knowtheory and that is precisely as insecure as any other software you ever install.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Christopher Anderson‏ @nvll 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats @knowtheory that was my point, really. Not directly piping it allows you to take a look at the installer. Otherwise, signed repos.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @nvll

        @nvll @knowtheory the | sh pattern is what makes verification so simple; maligning it is misguided.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Christopher Anderson‏ @nvll 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats @knowtheory Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you? How does blindly executing code curl grabbed make verification easier?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @nvll

        @nvll @knowtheory vs. downloading a pkg and running it, where the script being run is hidden from sight.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Christopher Anderson‏ @nvll 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats @knowtheory The sh pattern is the same as unsigned, but remove the | sh you can do some verification if it's not a binary format.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 4 Oct 2015
        Replying to @nvll

        @nvll @knowtheory it's the same as unsigned over HTTPS, yes, with a very simple verification step if you want it.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. End of conversation

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