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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2014

    I fear that the growing support for half-baked type systems in JS will set back good type systems for another decade (like Java)

    10:15 PM - 13 Nov 2014
    • 55 Retweets
    • 43 Likes
    • Anirudh Vyas Rafał Pocztarski Marcel Harkema Vesa Vänskä Wojciech Krysiak Chad Zawistowski Uther Pennerdz Ben Kirwin Brian
    7 replies 55 retweets 43 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Mark IJbema‏ @markijbema 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I wouldn't think so. Types in TypeScript/Flow are opt-in; in Java it was annoying because it was mandatory and broken (no generics)

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @markijbema

        @markijbema generics are a small part of the bigger puzzle. Opt-in doesn't help much if ecosystems come to rely on it.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Mark IJbema‏ @markijbema 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats The ecosystem won't rely on it until some specific type system has 'won', so I'd guess this won't happen soon.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @markijbema

        @markijbema afaict Angular 2.0 requires type syntax, so I wouldn't be so sure.

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Sébastien Cevey‏ @theefer 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats @markijbema is that true? You're supposed to be able to write (mildly convoluted) ES5 Angular apps.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Nov 2014
        Replying to @theefer

        @theefer @markijbema http://note.io/1u8IYOU  feels too convoluted to be practical. Regardless, types mandatory even when convoluted ES5.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. Sébastien Cevey‏ @theefer 14 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats some have suggested libraries to abstract the boilerplate (say w syntax sitar to Angular 1.x). We'll see how that looks

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Nov 2014
        Replying to @theefer

        @theefer Surprised the Angular team isn't abstracting it. Maybe they don't expect much desire for non-AtScript usage?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. Rune Andersen‏ @Rchrand 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats since you’re talking about type system, you should have a look at the strangeloop talk about the good, bad and ugly types systems.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @Rchrand

        @ayey__ I've already watched it :)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. David S Herm-kins‏ @littlecalculist 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        .@wycats Worrisome that folks think it's anywhere *near* time to talk standards. Competition in userspace is great. Let's see where it goes.

        2 replies 1 retweet 7 likes
      3. JeffMo‏ @lbljeffmo 14 Nov 2014
        Replying to @littlecalculist

        @littlecalculist who has proposed standardization of a type system so far? @wycats

        3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 14 Nov 2014
        Replying to @lbljeffmo

        @lbljeffmo @littlecalculist Honestly, I have no idea what anyone is proposing. People seemed to have more ambitions than syntax reservation

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Isaac Rabinovitch‏ @isaac32767 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats since you hold up Java as an exemplar, I'm guessing you equate "good" with "lots of rules and restrictions"

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @isaac32767

        @isaac32767 no, I mean that Java's types are terrible and set back good type systems for at least a decade because of how much it's hated

        2 replies 2 retweets 1 like
      4. Isaac Rabinovitch‏ @isaac32767 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats speaking of linguistics issues, might want to be more careful with the subordinate clauses ;-)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. Isaac Rabinovitch‏ @isaac32767 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @isaac32767

        @wycats would love to read more about why Java's type system is bad, possibly comparing it with one that is good

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Scott Menor‏Verified account @smenor 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats it's such a weird thing to see language features ebb and flow. «X sucks!» «oh wait X was actually really useful- lets kludge it in»

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 13 Nov 2014
        Replying to @smenor

        @smenor After working w/ Rust for a year (and seeing the roadmap), I absolutely agree with Haskellers: "you don't hate types, you hate Java"

        2 replies 27 retweets 20 likes
      4. 5 more replies

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