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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Oct 2014

    Browser implementor friends: Can you give me specifics about why "XML namespaces are terrible"? Concrete please.

    4:56 PM - 28 Oct 2014
    • 13 Retweets
    • 12 Likes
    • ⁹⁄₉ Peter Rushforth XMLPrague \XML{Guild} Data Value Strategy Pascal »Spooky Nuclear Annihilation« Hartig symbol type mismatch Juri Hahn R. Mark Volkmann
    23 replies 13 retweets 12 likes
      1. New conversation
      2.  👻Taudry Hep-BOO-urn 👻‏ @tabatkins 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats They're really long and annoying; practical experience shows that a single prefix namespace works well.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3.  👻Taudry Hep-BOO-urn 👻‏ @tabatkins 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @tabatkins

        @wycats Very difficult to memorize, too. Check out, for example, http://berjon.com/xmlbp-hard-to-memorise-names/ …

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @tabatkins

        @tabatkins The problem with `-` is that it's not an actual namespace separator so becomes ambiguous. Dealing with this in Ember now.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5.  👻Taudry Hep-BOO-urn 👻‏ @tabatkins 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I didn't talk about "-"?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @tabatkins

        @tabatkins Misunderstood; thought "practical experience shows that a single prefix namespace works well." meant `-`. Do you mean `foo:`?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7.  👻Taudry Hep-BOO-urn 👻‏ @tabatkins 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I didn't refer to any specific thing. But, for example, jQuery modules.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      8.  👻Taudry Hep-BOO-urn 👻‏ @tabatkins 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @tabatkins

        @wycats A specific syntax like "-" may have its own issues, but it's not a problem of name conflicts, it's of parsing ambiguity.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @tabatkins

        @tabatkins The problem with `-` is that "ember-foo-bar" and "foo-bar-baz" are ambiguous. No clear delineation between NS and tag name.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 4 more replies
      1. New conversation
      2. Tim Bray‏Verified account @timbray 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats Why should *browser* peeps have to care about namespaces?

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Oct 2014
        Replying to @timbray

        @timbray Extensible components start wanting something than a single global namespace.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Henri Sivonen‏ @hsivonen 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats The notion of many vocabularies was a wrong tomorrow. We got 4: HTML, SVG, MathML and ARIA. Only SVG overlaps HTML...

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Henri Sivonen‏ @hsivonen 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @hsivonen

        @wycats ...and SVG overlaps HTML only because xmlns gave it permission to. Without xmlns, it would surely have been designed not to.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @hsivonen

        @hsivonen things change with custom elements. `-` is ambiguous when dealing with packages/tooling. Dealing with this in Ember now.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. Henri Sivonen‏ @hsivonen 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats You can't type the URLs from memory and if you think you can, you'll make a hard-to-debug mistake some time.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Henri Sivonen‏ @hsivonen 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats Every API needs to pass two things instead of simply one even though people often think in terms of one string naming an element.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Henri Sivonen‏ @hsivonen 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats The name collisions between HTML and SVG rule out simple element creation API. Without collisions, the wouldn't be a need for xmlns.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Henri Sivonen‏ @hsivonen 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats It would be useful to collect findings at https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Why_no_namespaces … which isn't in a particularly good shape.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Robbert‏ @RobbertAtWork 30 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats Last year I wrote a paper touching on the subject of namespaces and the future of web applications: http://robbertbroersma.nl/blog/the-web-needs-xml-the-good-parts/ …

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. New conversation
      2. Robin Berjon‏ @robinberjon 31 Oct 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats That's hard for Twitter. You might want to release the can of worms in the TAG garden.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. 1 more reply

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