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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Apr 2014

    I think this TDD debate is missing the point. Features have an exploration mode and eventually settle into a stable mode. Tools. Jobs.

    6:58 PM - 28 Apr 2014
    • 31 Retweets
    • 40 Likes
    • John Kennedy Oisin Kim Josh Hlibishark David Zhou vegibit 💻 Jacky lives on @jalcine@playvicious.social now. #Kenneth Andrei says: Nikolai Onken
    8 replies 31 retweets 40 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Pete Hodgson‏ @ph1 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I like the three hats metaphor: sketching, exploring, constructing. I personally only do TDD when wearing my construction hat.

        2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @ph1

        @ph1 there's a good clay/concrete metaphor too.

        0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. DHH‏Verified account @dhh 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats That's the entire point of the debate: test-first to drive the design is mostly flawed. Backfilling tests is good. More system tests

        5 replies 11 retweets 11 likes
      3. Michael Johann‏ @malagant 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @dhh

        @dhh @wycats Thats, what I am doing most of the time. When design becomes more mature, then test-first can be established.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. DHH‏Verified account @dhh 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @malagant

        @malagant @wycats That's fine, but it's definitely not TDD, as per the original gospel. TDD preaches test-first as a design exploration tool

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      5. Michael Johann‏ @malagant 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @dhh

        @dhh @wycats No it's not TDD and thats the point. My opinion is to design without testing and later focus more on testing but not ALWAYS TDD

        1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
      6. DHH‏Verified account @dhh 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @malagant

        @malagant @wycats Three cheers to that.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      7. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. DHH‏Verified account @dhh 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats At least when applied to web apps with a known and stable MVC architecture. Easy/fast test focus leads to more complicated archs.

        3 replies 4 retweets 3 likes
      3. Matt Daubert‏ @mdaubsruby 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @dhh

        @dhh @wycats Apps with complex domains (IRL, not just code) benefit immensely from TDD, they get simpler. Strict TDD of MVC seems silly.

        0 replies 1 retweet 1 like
      4. End of conversation
      1. Rick Waldron‏ @rwaldron 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I’ve come to think of testing in terms of commits—when ready to commit, I write a test for the work being committed…

        0 replies 1 retweet 4 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. DHH‏Verified account @dhh 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats But TDD doctrine has test-first as sacred, along with "tests should drive design". Combine with unit focus and it's an iffy combo.

        1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
      3. 1 more reply
      1. Matt Barre‏ @loneaggie 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats I agree. I doubt the necessity of testing the exploration of solutions before the problem is solved when fully understood.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. Rick Waldron‏ @rwaldron 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats …of course you can’t commit before you’ve written anything ;)

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Aeden Jameson‏ @daliful 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @wycats

        @wycats which TDD debate are you referring to?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Shih-gian Lee‏ @shih_lee 28 Apr 2014
        Replying to @daliful

        @daliful This? - http://david.heinemeierhansson.com/2014/tdd-is-dead-long-live-testing.html …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Aeden Jameson‏ @daliful 29 Apr 2014
        Replying to @shih_lee

        @shih_lee I agree with some of the general outlook. The details not so much. It's been my thinking for sometime now.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation

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