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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12

      Perhaps surprising: I agree with @slightlylate that the discussion we're having about web performance isn't helping us move forward as a community.

      2 replies 5 retweets 35 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Tegan‏ @sincerely_tegan Sep 12
      Replying to @wycats @slightlylate

      Do you agree that it's React's fault that because a site that happens to use React is unoptimized that it's React's fault though? It seems like he's just looking for excuses to yell at frameworks at this point.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
      Replying to @sincerely_tegan @slightlylate

      I think that the developer community could really, badly use a discussion about which techniques work better, and I also believe that the discussion around React isn't helping us have that discussion.

      1 reply 0 retweets 10 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
      Replying to @wycats @sincerely_tegan @slightlylate

      Some people want to "blame React", while React people want to "defend React". But those two narratives overwhelm a discussion about which techniques, when used together with any framework, get the best results.

      2 replies 0 retweets 20 likes
    5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
      Replying to @wycats @sincerely_tegan @slightlylate

      So it's not "React's fault", but at the same time being defensive on behalf of your framework of choice (I include myself with regard to Ember) is contributing to the poor quality of the community conversation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    6. Tegan‏ @sincerely_tegan Sep 12
      Replying to @wycats @slightlylate

      I use React sure, but I don't feel particularly defensive about criticisms of it when they actually make sense. But blaming a 400KB bundle on the fact that the user used React is a bit absurd to me and makes it really hard to take anything Alex says seriously on that front.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
      Replying to @sincerely_tegan @slightlylate

      I think that it's wrong to blame React, because that isn't the conversation. It's not wrong to observe that people assume that React is "fast enough" and that there's too little discussion about techniques that should come default across the board.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    8. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Sep 12
      Replying to @wycats @sincerely_tegan

      Also, I don't "blame" React. Instead I note the probability (approaching 1) that sites with 400K of 1P JS include a relatively heavy framework, too many polyfills, and many other unneeded elements. Heavy FW use is a symptom of broken culture and management priorities.

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    9. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis Sep 12
      Replying to @slightlylate @wycats @sincerely_tegan

      Adam Rackis Retweeted Adam Rackis

      Define heavy? React is < 10% of that 400K. If you really want to make this better, *here's* the battle to be fought:https://twitter.com/AdamRackis/status/1040029445179039744 …

      Adam Rackis added,

      Adam Rackis @AdamRackis
      If any dev advocates want to help reduce bundle sizes across the web, a great first step would be to encourage major libraries to stop shipping un-tree-shakeable CJS to npm. Ship real ESM (import and export), and let webpack and Rollup do their thing ❤️👊🔥
      Show this thread
      3 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
      Replying to @AdamRackis @slightlylate @sincerely_tegan

      The thing in your cited tweet is a big piece of what my other tweets were getting at! STRONG CONFIRM!

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
      Replying to @wycats @AdamRackis and

      Another piece is figuring out how to model async fetching in frameworks so that simply using popular routers in the normal way gets you a decent amount of code splitting.

      6:05 PM - 12 Sep 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • reckoner вкαя∂εℓℓ Adam Rackis
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
          Replying to @wycats @AdamRackis and

          import() is a nice primitive, but asking every dev to use it manually is asking people to deprioritize it. It's great that the tooling is getting support that we can use in frameworks.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Adam Rackis‏ @AdamRackis Sep 12
          Replying to @wycats @slightlylate @sincerely_tegan

          That’ll always be tricky. Maybe some Babel plugin that takes <Route> <Component> and rewrites it using an async middle man? Tough to get right.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
          Replying to @AdamRackis @slightlylate @sincerely_tegan

          There's already in-framework async points inside of the routing layer. The framework can take one of those points and automatically fetch code associated with a route using import() and some registry or naming convention.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Russell‏ @slightlylate Sep 12
          Replying to @wycats @AdamRackis @sincerely_tegan

          The best tools are already shipping solutions: https://sapper.svelte.technology/guide#routing  https://polymer.github.io/pwa-starter-kit/configuring-and-personalizing/ … https://nextjs.org/docs/#automatic-code-splitting … https://ionicframework.com/pwa/toolkit  https://github.com/developit/preact-cli … etc. etc.

          3 replies 2 retweets 9 likes
        3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 12
          Replying to @slightlylate @AdamRackis @sincerely_tegan

          Yes, there's great work people are doing to flesh it out. As @AdamRackis said on another subthread, getting everyone standardized around loose modules and putting focus on last-mile tools delivers the biggest benefit to the most users.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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