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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4

       📶 Retweeted Yehuda Katz  🥨

      Always good to run into programmers who want you to know they know what you should want.https://twitter.com/wycats/status/1036672033503862785 …

       📶 added,

      Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account @wycats
      Replying to @graydon_pub
      In the case of generics, the cost of leaving out even simple generics has a high cognitive load cost. I have no problem with taking it slow and conservative; that's a reasonable place for them. But the koans and zealous arguments against generics disrupt the design process.
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
      Replying to @coreload

      I don't get it.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
      Replying to @wycats

      I'm just getting a kick out of these periodic spats from non-Go programmers telling Go programmers what's good for them. (Or apply same to Dart or any other non-elaborately typed language) Mostly linear thinking, false dichotomy, mind projection presented as over-confident truth

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
      Replying to @coreload

      In my tweets, I said that I understand why Go ended up this way, consider it a totally reasonable space, and only narrowly objected to some elements of the discussion on the topic that slow down improvements that would work even in that context.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
      Replying to @wycats

      Yes, that aspect of your position seems rare and I would put that in the "plus" column. However your underlying stated position is that generics in some form are an absolute and even significant net gain. That's the current widely held position although most are not as pragmatic.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
      Replying to @coreload

      For the sake of this thread, I'm mostly only taking it as a "given" in light of the Go 2 design. Previously, I personally considered it likely that limited generics are a broad improvement over Go 1, but found it interesting that so many people seemed very happy without them.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
      Replying to @wycats

      Four things dramatically reduce the need for generics types in Go. All of them underutilized in most code I've seen. 1. "Built-in" generic channels, slices, maps 2. Interfaces with behavior (OOP) 3. First-class functions 4. Type definitions ("new types")

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
      Replying to @coreload

      For the second, do you mean something like this argument:https://medium.com/capital-one-developers/closures-are-the-generics-for-go-cb32021fb5b5 …

      7:16 PM - 4 Sep 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
          Replying to @wycats

          I have several problems with that article but it does address using closures. There are other ways to use closures as various kinds of "glue" that have nothing to do with generics. Frankly the Java example was how to do closures, before Java had closures. Today I'd use closures.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
          Replying to @coreload @wycats

          The worse problem in that article is often repeated: "In Go, you have two choices — either you can write the data structure over and over for each type that you need (or use a code generator to save some typing) or you need to define your data type in terms of interface{}"

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
          Replying to @coreload @wycats

          This is a problem because it ignores the best aspect of Go's interfaces. Way too often people use "any", ie interface{} instead of defining an interface with behavior. The bulk of the problem in that article is solvable using objects, ie interfaces with appropriate behavior.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
          Replying to @coreload @wycats

          In conjunction with interfaces, the ability to define a new type in order to ascribe new behavior to some other type is a very powerful way to extend the applicability of values, structs, etc

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6.  📶‏ @coreload Sep 4
          Replying to @coreload @wycats

          Nearly every article on Go I've read misses this mark by a long shot, including this one. The sad, slow decline of OOP from mainstream programming.

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. End of conversation

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