Skip to content
By using Twitter’s services you agree to our Cookies Use. We and our partners operate globally and use cookies, including for analytics, personalisation, and ads.
  • Home Home Home, current page.
  • About

Saved searches

  • Remove
  • In this conversation
    Verified accountProtected Tweets @
Suggested users
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @
  • Language: English
    • Bahasa Indonesia
    • Bahasa Melayu
    • Català
    • Čeština
    • Dansk
    • Deutsch
    • English UK
    • Español
    • Filipino
    • Français
    • Hrvatski
    • Italiano
    • Magyar
    • Nederlands
    • Norsk
    • Polski
    • Português
    • Română
    • Slovenčina
    • Suomi
    • Svenska
    • Tiếng Việt
    • Türkçe
    • Ελληνικά
    • Български език
    • Русский
    • Српски
    • Українська мова
    • עִבְרִית
    • العربية
    • فارسی
    • मराठी
    • हिन्दी
    • বাংলা
    • ગુજરાતી
    • தமிழ்
    • ಕನ್ನಡ
    • ภาษาไทย
    • 한국어
    • 日本語
    • 简体中文
    • 繁體中文
  • Have an account? Log in
    Have an account?
    · Forgot password?

    New to Twitter?
    Sign up
wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

Tweets

Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

Tweets

  • © 2018 Twitter
  • About
  • Help Center
  • Terms
  • Privacy policy
  • Cookies
  • Ads info
Dismiss
Previous
Next

Go to a person's profile

Saved searches

  • Remove
  • In this conversation
    Verified accountProtected Tweets @
Suggested users
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @
  • Verified accountProtected Tweets @

Promote this Tweet

Block

  • Tweet with a location

    You can add location information to your Tweets, such as your city or precise location, from the web and via third-party applications. You always have the option to delete your Tweet location history. Learn more

    Your lists

    Create a new list


    Under 100 characters, optional

    Privacy

    Copy link to Tweet

    Embed this Tweet

    Embed this Video

    Add this Tweet to your website by copying the code below. Learn more

    Add this video to your website by copying the code below. Learn more

    Hmm, there was a problem reaching the server.

    By embedding Twitter content in your website or app, you are agreeing to the Twitter Developer Agreement and Developer Policy.

    Preview

    Why you're seeing this ad

    Log in to Twitter

    · Forgot password?
    Don't have an account? Sign up »

    Sign up for Twitter

    Not on Twitter? Sign up, tune into the things you care about, and get updates as they happen.

    Sign up
    Have an account? Log in »

    Two-way (sending and receiving) short codes:

    Country Code For customers of
    United States 40404 (any)
    Canada 21212 (any)
    United Kingdom 86444 Vodafone, Orange, 3, O2
    Brazil 40404 Nextel, TIM
    Haiti 40404 Digicel, Voila
    Ireland 51210 Vodafone, O2
    India 53000 Bharti Airtel, Videocon, Reliance
    Indonesia 89887 AXIS, 3, Telkomsel, Indosat, XL Axiata
    Italy 4880804 Wind
    3424486444 Vodafone
    » See SMS short codes for other countries

    Confirmation

     

    Welcome home!

    This timeline is where you’ll spend most of your time, getting instant updates about what matters to you.

    Tweets not working for you?

    Hover over the profile pic and click the Following button to unfollow any account.

    Say a lot with a little

    When you see a Tweet you love, tap the heart — it lets the person who wrote it know you shared the love.

    Spread the word

    The fastest way to share someone else’s Tweet with your followers is with a Retweet. Tap the icon to send it instantly.

    Join the conversation

    Add your thoughts about any Tweet with a Reply. Find a topic you’re passionate about, and jump right in.

    Learn the latest

    Get instant insight into what people are talking about now.

    Get more of what you love

    Follow more accounts to get instant updates about topics you care about.

    Find what's happening

    See the latest conversations about any topic instantly.

    Never miss a Moment

    Catch up instantly on the best stories happening as they unfold.

    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 3
      Replying to @graydon_pub

      Again, of course this is true. But type systems that in practice lean a lot on dynamic casts are playing a shell game with complexity that at least in my experience doesn't result in a type system that is as cognitively as simple as the formal model would imply.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Graydon Hoare‏ @graydon_pub Sep 3
      Replying to @wycats

      This "just moving complexity around" stance is also a koan, to reuse your previous term. There are a couple other huge cliffs in type-system complexity (eg. dependent types) that eliminate a whole lot more "dynamic casts"; why not apply that reasoning there?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 3
      Replying to @graydon_pub @wycats

      If you look at the possible dynamic errors in a real ML program, few would be eliminated by dependent types.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. corvus frugilegus‏ @glaebhoerl Sep 4
      Replying to @samth @graydon_pub @wycats

      Could you elaborate w.r.t. what you have in mind? Of course dependent types can in principle be used to encode and prove any property; so I guess you mean something more specific?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
      Replying to @glaebhoerl @graydon_pub @wycats

      I think that if we look at possible dynamic errors in an ML program, we'd get a few different cases: 1. Impossible/violates preconditions but type system can't prove it (fixed w/ dep types) 2. Dynamic error in outside world (file not found) 3. Case we don't want to bother with.

      4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Max S. New‏ @maxsnew Sep 4
      Replying to @samth @glaebhoerl and

      Who cares that dependent types can't get rid of 2? And of course we have plenty of type systems that can make sense of 3.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
      Replying to @maxsnew @glaebhoerl and

      My claim is that in a language without parameterized types (Java 1, Go 1), many possible dynamic errors are in case 1 and would be eliminated by adding type parameterization, but in modern ML programs few possible errors are in case 1.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Max S. New‏ @maxsnew Sep 4
      Replying to @samth @glaebhoerl and

      Not sure about "few" but certainly the jump from no generics to ML eliminates far more than the jump from ML to dependent types.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
      Replying to @maxsnew @glaebhoerl and

      Right, I think that adding type parameters is a slam dunk, adding bounded polymorphism less so, and further complexity is less obviously valuable than that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
      Replying to @samth @maxsnew and

      I think I agree with this in the abstract, but I also think that a lot of syntax design is still unexplored, especially in the context of these restrictions

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
      Replying to @wycats @samth and

      And I also think that the syntax has a very significant impact on the understandability of these systems.

      2:58 PM - 4 Sep 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
          Replying to @wycats @maxsnew and

          I think the issues with syntax can't be addressed without first figuring out what semantics you want, which is still unclear in many cases.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
          Replying to @samth @wycats and

          Also I think you and I may mean different things by "syntax".

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
          Replying to @samth @maxsnew and

          What's your definition?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
          Replying to @wycats @maxsnew and

          What order the tokens go in and how they're spelled.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
          Replying to @samth @maxsnew and

          I am also including what the syntax attempts to express and how it is understood by human programmers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
          Replying to @wycats @maxsnew and

          Right, that was my expectation.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Sep 4
          Replying to @samth @maxsnew and

          What do you call this extension?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth Sep 4
          Replying to @wycats @maxsnew and

          The language. ;) Less flippantly, I'd say that I don't think we can draw a line that's concretely about "what people write down" that's separate from the rest of the language design.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. 6 more replies

      Loading seems to be taking a while.

      Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information.

        Promoted Tweet

        false

        • © 2018 Twitter
        • About
        • Help Center
        • Terms
        • Privacy policy
        • Cookies
        • Ads info