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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @sgrif @codinghorror @samsaffron

      It's also just actually true that sometimes performance is an ergonomics issue. @ryanflorence made this point very viscerally years ago to the Ember community in his React talk about how bad performance sometimes makes it hard to say "yes" to features.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @sgrif and

      Every time someone uses rhetoric that makes the two seem at odds, we are set back years of community consensus building, as people entrench into tribes that accept the false dichotomy. I love the Rust ecosystem for making a rejection of the conflict a core value.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    3. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @sgrif and

      I'd much rather see Rails reject the conflict and embrace win-win solutions in the Doctrine than bludgeoning people who care about ergonomics to get them to agree that their concerns are subordinate to performance.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @sgrif and

      for that to even begin, there has to be top-level Doctrine acknowledgement that performance maybe.. kinda.. matters.. even a little? a smidge? a dash?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
      Replying to @codinghorror @wycats and

      otherwise it looks a lot like Doctrine level DevHappy bludgeoning. Your users will have so much time in between requests to think about how ecstatically happy they are! Oh wait.. you mean users should be happy too? 🤔

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @codinghorror @sgrif and

      I don't read the Doctrine the way you do, even on its own terms. It's saying that we focus more on dev hapiness because it's harder. It doesn't say performance doesn't matter, and the amount of aggregate time spent on performance really doesn't match this claim.pic.twitter.com/odN6zzkV0H

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @codinghorror and

      Reducing pointless configuration quite offers offers opportunities for optimizations that are harder in more configuration-heavy environments. Linux can optimize socket buffer sharing by sharply nudging people towards higher level APIs.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @codinghorror and

      Rust iterators work better than hand-rolled loops because the higher-level abstraction can amortize or eliminate the bounds check. Modern web frameworks are faster than Backbone at scale because they can guarantee render() is only called once.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @codinghorror and

      Glimmer was able to take Ember's declarative templating layer and drastically improve performance with few semantic changes. Ergonomics often *enables* performance optimization by making developer intent clearer and more declarative. They aren't in conflict.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
      Replying to @wycats @sgrif and

      Glimmer alone wasn't a fix, to my recollection. We had to wait for Glimmer 2.https://meta.discourse.org/t/upgrading-ember-to-2-10/52724 …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @codinghorror @sgrif and

      I was using Glimmer as a shorthand to mean "various improvements we've made that leveraged the declarative nature of the syntax" My argument is that ergonomic APIs often have latent fast paths you can identify and optimize (and downplay or deprecate the slow paths)

      4:15 PM - 1 Jun 2018
      • 3 Likes
      • Ford Fischer Sam Saffron VisArch
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
          Replying to @wycats @codinghorror and

          JavaScript got fast in part by turning with() into an aggressive deopt and turning direct eval() into a super-slow operation. The rest of the language was much more optimizable and the results shocked the pundits of the time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
          Replying to @wycats @sgrif and

          JavaScript is in billions of devices, with 4-5 major corporations pouring zillions of dollars into it. I agree there's a ton of low hanging perf fruit here, but who is there to harvest it? And factoring for anti-perf culture..

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        4. Melanie Sumner  💥  🐹‏ @melaniersumner Jun 1
          Replying to @codinghorror @wycats and

          it's like you're trying to solve world hunger on Twitter though. 🤷‍♀️

          0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        5. End of conversation

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