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wycats's profile
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz 🥨
Yehuda Katz  🥨
Verified account
@wycats

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Yehuda Katz  🥨Verified account

@wycats

Tilde Co-Founder, OSS enthusiast and world traveler.

Portland, OR
yehudakatz.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1

      Jeff Atwood Retweeted Sam Saffron

      It is profoundly sad how Rails has institutionalized a "nobody cares" attitude toward performance.https://twitter.com/samsaffron/status/1002446941156884480 …

      Jeff Atwood added,

      Sam Saffron @samsaffron
      Blogged: "An analysis of memory bloat in Active Record 5.2" https://samsaffron.com/archive/2018/06/01/an-analysis-of-memory-bloat-in-active-record-5-2 …
      15 replies 28 retweets 105 likes
    2. Sean Griffin‏ @sgrif Jun 1
      Replying to @codinghorror

      This is a really bad take. @samsaffron has had access since March to the repository for an experiment I've been working on for a long while to fix exactly this. I've asked for help getting benchmark numbers for it on Discourse... I have no clue why it wasn't included here.

      1 reply 1 retweet 28 likes
    3. Sam Saffron‏ @samsaffron Jun 1
      Replying to @sgrif @codinghorror

      I will revise that to include numbers for the experiment repo, and the take that nobody cares about performance is not correct. However the current giant pain needs no additional libraries to get solved for PG it can be fixed in Ruby

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    4. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
      Replying to @samsaffron @sgrif

      The take that "developer happiness" is the only thing that matters, and that performance can be ignored, is absolutely enshrined in Rails culture.. and has been from day one.

      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    5. Sam Saffron‏ @samsaffron Jun 1
      Replying to @codinghorror @sgrif

      It is fair to say that for me it is very disappointing that https://rubyonrails.org/doctrine/  says nothing about performance. Performance is not a priority for the doctrine. Consumers of Rails at scale have a very different take.

      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    6. Sean Griffin‏ @sgrif Jun 1
      Replying to @samsaffron @codinghorror

      "Performance is secondary to developer happiness" is not the same as "we actively don't care about performance". Rails is a project run by volunteers and has limited resources. Y'all are talking like we're actively just ignoring performance, vs having to prioritize our time.

      5 replies 1 retweet 41 likes
      Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
      Replying to @sgrif @samsaffron @codinghorror

      There are also plenty of people, yourself included, who have spent sustained effort improving Rails performance. The false dichotomy is really destructive to both causes, and create gridlock between perspectives that gets nothing done.

      3:29 PM - 1 Jun 2018
      • 9 Likes
      • Matt Zollinhofer Andy Mockler Sarah Mei Artemiy Ahmad Saleem TheTeaNerd britton ballard Jakub Matraszek
      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
          Replying to @wycats @sgrif and

          What's the point of rhetoric that convinces folks who want to improve developer ergonomics that their goals are in conflict with performance? What do you think will happen over the long haul if performance-minded folks act like the tradeoff is zero-sum?

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
          Replying to @wycats @sgrif @samsaffron

          It's funny that you bring this up, because we want a Merb style outcome here and that's what we are working toward. I honestly don't feel AR can be fixed because of the deep seated cultural issues of "developer happiness > everything else"

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
          Replying to @codinghorror @wycats and

          in other words, the only way to get the outcome you want is to build the (mostly compatible) alternative and push it forward.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
          Replying to @codinghorror @sgrif @samsaffron

          I'd welcome a Rails-like Rails competitor. In the absence of a concrete alternative, the rhetoric is counterproductive (because it alienates developer ergonomics folks from folks who care about performance, turning a win-win situation into zero-sum)

          2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
        6. Jeff Atwood‏Verified account @codinghorror Jun 1
          Replying to @wycats @sgrif @samsaffron

          It'd be an ActiveRecord alternative, not a full Rails alternative. Working title.. TurboRecord ;)

          2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
        7. Yehuda Katz  🥨‏Verified account @wycats Jun 1
          Replying to @codinghorror @sgrif @samsaffron

          My work on Rails 3 was overtly designed to allow experimentation and alternatives in the ORM part of Rails and the failure of DataMapper is one of my biggest disappointments from that era. Go to town.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        8. Sam Saffron‏ @samsaffron Jun 1
          Replying to @wycats @codinghorror @sgrif

          Honestly, I don't think an alternative will work, I think an extraction that would act as a full fledged building block is a better and more likely to work out. Active Record build on Active SQL or something like that.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        9. Sean Griffin‏ @sgrif Jun 1
          Replying to @samsaffron @wycats @codinghorror

          Separating the query builder out from the rest (introducing the public APIs required) has definitely been a goal of mine for a while. As usual, it's just a question of time.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        10. 1 more reply

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