You'll want to learn more about THERAC-25, here's a good start:https://twitter.com/jorendorff/status/938816098622935045 …
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They called the cartonist a "non-practitioner" (though he had programming experience at NASA), and a nihilist, and belittled the relative maturity of risk management in the aviation industry (they appear to have been "non-practitioners" of aviation).pic.twitter.com/QLorLE7VZN
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There's nothing that the software industry can gain by belittling the life-safety industries that they can learn so much from, just because a comic strip hurt their feelings.pic.twitter.com/juQGnaOTOY
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How many THOUSAND people got out of the twin towers due to the fire safety rating that kept them standing nearly an hour in the worst case, despite an attack way beyond what was anticipated/imaginable when they were designed? NOW let’s talk life- and society-critical software
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They got out safely only because of lessons learned from the previous terrorist attacks on those two towers specifically
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Procedures implemented long after the building was constructed. The original procedures would have left thousands more dead.
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This is an example proving my point - what's needed is just the Deming wheel, everything else follows
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If we'd adopted "building codes" for software and were working on the next level of prevention, people would understand. Arguing "building codes won't stop nuclear strikes" then letting homes routinely fall over in rainstorms, isn't going to cut it.
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You're working very hard to miss the point.https://twitter.com/www_ora_tion_ca/status/1029013451195252741 …
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Maybe I'm making a different one? We're on the same page with the need to improve. The question is what you mean by standards. We can think of them as both things we do to ensure a good result (processes and rules we follow). I think that's what you meant by "standards" right?
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I think you're trying to sound smart without first reading the things I wrote.
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If that's what you think, I'll leave you to it.
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Yeah - all that fancy talk is fine and dandy, but over and over again, I see schedule and budget overwhelm good planning and process discipline. It's not even middle managers, it's upper managers who should know better. Who don't understand software engineering.
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But the worst; are the ones (like current voting machine vendors) who bill a high price for amateur level garbage. They drive these terrible practices, and deride the companies who do real engineering as "too expensive".
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Thank you for facilitating this discussion. I am learning a lot....my own profession of Medicine still has a way to go.
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Just wait until they have to deal with the equivalent of mud dauber wasps in the pitot tubes …
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It's not about belittling aviation. It's about recognising there are differences between effectively managing 1-1000 people, and going beyond that. It's not hubris, it's skepticism, which is a healthy trait. Especially when you've advocated learning from all others.
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Learning from all others is a threat model in itself. What if you misapply lessons from a "more mature" industry? Will someone do an RCA and produce a 200 page report showing you tried & it didn't change the outcome? We could go off on airlines about MH370, but we don't
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It's not that there is nothing to learn from other industries, but the direct risk of death from facebook is never going to be modelled anywhere near as high, because most people only see risk as direct physical risk. That does need to change as does information dissemination.
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But lets not make hard and fast rules about how many pages a report needs to have, or blame people that disagree. Expecting instant "yes let's all do what {X} says" would be more problematic than doing nothing & waiting for guidance from lawmakers.
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@threadreaderapp unroll please -
Hi please find the unroll here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1028010688650911746.html … See you soon.
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That makes me…laugh? Sigh? I worked on B-1Bs starting in 1987 or so. We had one crash and people die because of a fucking pelican hitting the wing pivot and severing all four hydraulic lines. Because what were the odds? As it turned out…
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