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withoutboats's profile
Saoirse Shipwreckt
Saoirse Shipwreckt
Saoirse Shipwreckt
@withoutboats

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Saoirse Shipwreckt

@withoutboats

love and rage

Berlin, Germany
Joined March 2015

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    Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
    • Report Tweet

    MONADS AND RUST A THREAD - or - why async/await instead of do notation

    4:45 PM - 9 Aug 2018
    • 91 Retweets
    • 341 Likes
    • 🇮🇷☮️ Boris Ribic hamïd pseudomorphism iPengi 10xLover Jo Moritz Gunz CAD97
    7 replies 91 retweets 341 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        Let's start with borrowing across yield points. We've solved this problem for real yield points with pin, I have no idea how to solve it using a function interface like >>=

        2 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
        Show this thread
      3. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        So that means borrows across statements in do notation are just out of the picture. That's extremely limiting.

        2 replies 3 retweets 17 likes
        Show this thread
      4. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        Rust's imperative control flow statements like `return` and `break` inside of do notation also doesn't make sense, because we do not have TCP preserving closures.

        3 replies 4 retweets 17 likes
        Show this thread
      5. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        So we only know how to have do notation without early return or borrowing. People say this is an open research question, but IMO its just not possible within our runtime constraints.

        2 replies 4 retweets 16 likes
        Show this thread
      6. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        Getting beyond that, this is assuming that "future" implements "monad," so if we could just add HKT to have a Monad trait, everything would be hunkydory. That's not true!

        1 reply 6 retweets 18 likes
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      7. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        the signature of >>= is `m a -> (a -> m b) -> m b` the signature of Future::and_then is roughly `m a -> (a -> m b) -> AndThen (m a) b`

        2 replies 3 retweets 24 likes
        Show this thread
      8. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        That is, in order to reify the state machine of their control flow for optimization, both Future and Iterator return a new type from their >>= op, not "Self<U>"

        2 replies 3 retweets 16 likes
        Show this thread
      9. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        Also, our functions are not a `->` type constructor; they come in 3 different flavors, and many of our monads use different ones (FnOnce vs FnMut vs Fn).

        2 replies 3 retweets 23 likes
        Show this thread
      10. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        Okay, so Monad can't abstract over Future, but still let's have Monad. Problem: we don't have higher kinded polymorphism, and probably never will.

        1 reply 3 retweets 20 likes
        Show this thread
      11. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        The problem is that without currying at the type level, higher kinded polymorphism makes type inference trivially undecidable. We have no currying.

        2 replies 4 retweets 21 likes
        Show this thread
      12. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        In order to add higher kinded polymorphism, we'd have to restrict the sorts of types you could use in a way that would feel very arbitrary to users.

        1 reply 3 retweets 15 likes
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      13. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        In contrast, generic associated types don't have this problem, and directly solve the expressiveness problems we do have, like Iterable (abstracting over everything with a `.iter(&self)` method)

        1 reply 4 retweets 24 likes
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      14. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        (Don't get me wrong, you can write something to abstract over some monads like Option and Result using generic associated types. But its much less ergonomic than Monad in Haskell, even for those).

        1 reply 4 retweets 21 likes
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      15. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        IN CONCLUSION: a design that works in a pure FP which lazily evaluates and boxes everything by default doesn't necessarily work in an eager imperative language with no runtime.

        5 replies 19 retweets 111 likes
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      16. Saoirse Shipwreckt‏ @withoutboats 9 Aug 2018
        • Report Tweet

        This comes up a lot, please link this thread liberally.

        3 replies 5 retweets 62 likes
        Show this thread
      17. End of conversation

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