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whitequark's profile
whitequark
whitequark
whitequark
@whitequark

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whitequark

@whitequark

http://whitequark.org  · http://llvm.moe  · http://powerlinesinanime.tumblr.com  · working on quantum computers for a living · DMs open · she

Joined July 2010

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    1. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22

      whitequark Retweeted julienPauli

      "Windows 95 was 30 MB" is such an ignorant, obnoxious, trite take. a triple buffered framebuffer (which you want for smooth scrolling) for my 4K display is 70 MB in *pixels alone*. Obviously a complete webpage with precomposed textures would take more.https://twitter.com/julienPauli/status/1042113172143067138 …

      whitequark added,

      julienPauli @julienPauli
      "Windows 95 was 30Mb. Today we have web pages heavier than that! Google keyboard app routinely eats 150 Mb. Is an app that draws 30 keys on a screen really five times more complex than the whole Windows 95?" **Must Read** : http://tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/ …
      28 replies 160 retweets 571 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Sep 22
      Replying to @whitequark

      "Precomposed textures" doesn't sound very reasonable for a webpage. I can't think of any good reason for a webpage whose purpose isn't delivering high-res media to be more than a few hundred kB.

      1 reply 0 retweets 12 likes
    3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22
      Replying to @RichFelker

      The current generation of browsers is optimizing for input latency at cost of memory consumption, which is a tradeoff that isn't right for everyone (probably not for you!) but is a decision that should be acknowledged as valid

      2 replies 1 retweet 27 likes
    4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Sep 22
      Replying to @whitequark

      Maybe I misunderstand; I thought you were talking about loading that much data over the network, not rendering pipeline on the client. Still not sure how it helps input latency though.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Sep 22
      Replying to @RichFelker @whitequark

      Ideal performance and memory usage should be achieved by compressing all image data, decompressing on the fly when displaying it. (Decompressing jpeg is a lot faster than memcpy if done right.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22
      Replying to @RichFelker

      ideal performance and power usage (which is more important than memory usage for the vast majority of browser users today) is achieved by doing everything on GPU, which precludes this kind of tricks

      11:58 PM - 22 Sep 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22
          Replying to @whitequark @RichFelker

          when just scrolling, you do not want to touch the DOM or pixels on the CPU at all unless you need to reflow the webpage. you render precomposed textures into the framebuffer, including any desired animation or such, all done on the GPU. Servo does this well, WebKit not so much

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
          Replying to @whitequark @RichFelker

          in theory if you had non-interleaved RAM dice and the OS could compact physical memory and manage NVM cache cleverly, using less RAM would actually reduce power consumption by powering off unused RAM, but I think it's not significant enough to spend time getting it to work

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Sep 23
          Replying to @whitequark

          Yeah, an ideal laptop/mobile memory architecture would work like that. With a smart OS, you'd get sleep lifetimes comparable to hibernate, but with instant resume.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
          Replying to @RichFelker

          *makes an indefinite gesture* FeRAM

          3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Robert Ou‏ @rqou_ Sep 23
          Replying to @whitequark @RichFelker

          I thought FeRAM doesn't have the necessary speed or density? However, I don't know if this is inherent or just the case with PZT-based FeRAM. I don't think anybody has commercialized a hafnium-based FeRAM yet though.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
          Replying to @rqou_ @RichFelker

          hence "indefinite gesture" :P

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Rich Felker‏ @RichFelker Sep 23
          Replying to @whitequark

          GPU can do decompression. Static power consumption of DRAM refresh for 8x as much RAM as you should need has got to be a bigger overall batt life cost than dynamic consumption under active use...

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
          Replying to @RichFelker

          as far as I know no existing system actually powers down unused RAM because all accesses are interleaved across every chip

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
          Replying to @whitequark @RichFelker

          this is, of course, done because faster RAM access means faster race-to-idle for the CPU cores, which has obvious immediate benefits.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        5. End of conversation

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