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whitequark

@whitequark

http://whitequark.org  · http://llvm.moe  · http://powerlinesinanime.tumblr.com  · working on quantum computers for a living · DMs open · she

Joined July 2010

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    whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22

    whitequark Retweeted julienPauli

    "Windows 95 was 30 MB" is such an ignorant, obnoxious, trite take. a triple buffered framebuffer (which you want for smooth scrolling) for my 4K display is 70 MB in *pixels alone*. Obviously a complete webpage with precomposed textures would take more.https://twitter.com/julienPauli/status/1042113172143067138 …

    whitequark added,

    julienPauli @julienPauli
    "Windows 95 was 30Mb. Today we have web pages heavier than that! Google keyboard app routinely eats 150 Mb. Is an app that draws 30 keys on a screen really five times more complex than the whole Windows 95?" **Must Read** : http://tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/ …
    11:24 PM - 22 Sep 2018
    • 160 Retweets
    • 571 Likes
    • kdave Dennis Luzin zomg Angela Thomas Bassetto Neo(howard) Akamai G Jean Niklas L\\\\'orange Pascal »Spooky Mic Bleed« Hartig
    28 replies 160 retweets 571 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22

        Slack should not eat 10 GB of RAM, but if you make bad faith comparisons like that, you're worse than actual luddites. Luddites had good points on labor versus capital, you're just pointlessly whining

        6 replies 29 retweets 226 likes
        Show this thread
      3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22

        I'm sorry, my patience for lack of even a back-of-the-envelope validation of tech nostalgia rants runs very low these days

        9 replies 4 retweets 118 likes
        Show this thread
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Nikita‏ @nikitonsky Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark

        Well, I was talking about on-screen keyboard, it doesn’t need smooth scrolling, and it requires 150 Mb _on disk_. I can, too, name things that weight 70 Mb, what does it have to do with anything?

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @nikitonsky

        I guess this was confusingly phrased, so let's try again. memory footprint of a modern webpage on the order of 100 MB is OK because that's how browsers achieve low input latency. wire footprint of same on the order of 10 MB of JS is OK because the offline applications they…

        2 replies 2 retweets 7 likes
      4. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark @nikitonsky

        replace were often much larger, even if you add the size of the browser itself. flash footprint of a modern Android app on the order of 100 MB isn't OK, but this is a problem inherent to the way Android evolved as an open platform and not computing in general.

        1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
      5. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark @nikitonsky

        you're complaining about bloat in general, but there's no such thing. some of it only appears to be bloat, and some of it has to be dissected on a case by case basis to get any useful insight. classifying programs by bloat is like classifying cats by number of toes.

        0 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Djamé‏ @zehavoc Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark

        I don't think the 4K triple buffered framebuffer is stored somewhere at install time, so that's 70mb you can't claim.

        1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @zehavoc

        talking about RAM footprint. if we're talking about JS sizes on the order of 10 MB, well, that compares very favorably to the size of the offline app it replaces, which is usually on the order of 100-1000 MB (e.g.: Office, Outlook)

        2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
      4. Djamé‏ @zehavoc Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark

        you may have a point but that article was actually talking about the disk space footprint of OSes and apps. If anything, using only web-based apps should actually reduce the disk space but he noticed the reverse effect.

        1 reply 0 retweets 11 likes
      5. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @zehavoc

        Firefox OS was quite compact; Android apps drag a ton of stuff in apks these days because every older version of Android they support comes with compatibility libraries for that specific version. This is an issue with the design of Android but not modern computing in general

        2 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
      6. Nikita‏ @nikitonsky Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark @zehavoc

        are you saying Android isn’t modern or everything else is super-efficient and only Android is a bad example?

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      7. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @nikitonsky @zehavoc

        neither

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      8. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. avatar of devastation‏ @hierarchon Sep 22
        Replying to @whitequark

        this article says "Linux kills random processes by design. And yet it’s the most popular server-side OS." which i assume is talking about the OOM-killer but makes me imagine, like, linux just randomly killing processes for no reason

        3 replies 1 retweet 13 likes
      3. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 22
        Replying to @hierarchon

        you can just turn off overcommit if you want. actually understanding that doesn't make for a good rant though

        2 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
      4. Nikita‏ @nikitonsky Sep 23
        Replying to @whitequark @hierarchon

        yeah, but then fork stops to work, and there’re lots of things depending of fork. Actually understanding “there’s an option but nobody uses it” doesn’t make for a good argument though

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 23
        Replying to @nikitonsky @hierarchon

        I use it and it works, tell me where I'm wrong

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      6. Ondrej Pinka‏ @OndrejPinka Sep 24
        Replying to @whitequark @nikitonsky @hierarchon

        So you are simply assuming *he* (implying *everyone* using linux kernel) can turn it off because it works for *you*. Are you suggesting this mechanism is actually not needed in the kernel as everyone should have it turned off?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      7. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 24
        Replying to @OndrejPinka @nikitonsky @hierarchon

        nope. he claimed that setting vm.overcommit_memory=2 inherently breaks fork, which is obviously false, as anyone can verify by, for example, doing that on one of their machines and observing the results

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      8. Nikita‏ @nikitonsky Sep 24
        Replying to @whitequark @OndrejPinka @hierarchon

        so there’s no problems with fork and vm.overcommit_memory=2? Why isn’t it the default or even recommended setting then?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      9. whitequark‏ @whitequark Sep 25
        Replying to @nikitonsky @OndrejPinka @hierarchon

        there are obviously no problems with fork and without overcommit because Linux is the only Unix-like that has overcommit enabled by default in the first place, yes.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      10. 3 more replies

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