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wellerstein's profile
Alex Wellerstein
Alex Wellerstein
Alex Wellerstein
Verified account
@wellerstein

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Alex WellersteinVerified account

@wellerstein

Historian of science, secrecy, and nuclear weapons. Professor of STS at @FollowStevens. UC Berkeley alum with a Harvard PhD. NUKEMAP creator. Coder and web dev.

Hoboken, NJ / NYC
blog.nuclearsecrecy.com
Joined September 2011

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    1. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 1 Jan 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @WonkVJ

      I am not sure that nobody believes it is not credible — there are imaginable circumstances — but in any case, comparing present-day US policy to DPRK is bound to be a mismatch because of the obvious asymmetries.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @WonkVJ

      Which is only to say — I suspect that in any case where a small, weak country has a few nukes and is against a much larger adversary (nuclear or not), first-use is going to be part of their deterrence (and sort of has to be). Cf. Pakistan.

      1 reply 1 retweet 3 likes
    3. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @WonkVJ

      So I wouldn't call the DPRK approach "peculiar." If your adversary has conventional decapitation capability, then a first (nuclear) use threat *has* to be part of deterrence. Otherwise it doesn't accomplish anything. (And first-use is not first-strike.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein

      That's @NarangVipin's theory. It's not wrong, but it's also not the only/primary incentive for first-use by NK. Nuclear scholars have erred by rallying around that theory too tightly. Again, it's right, but offers only one rationale for first-use; there's more than that

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @WonkVJ @wellerstein @NarangVipin

      The distinct logics matter bc NK will soon have a secure second-strike capability, which--if not for their peculiar beliefs about coercion--would lead them to an assured retaliation posture. But their beliefs will ensure that first-strike remains on table even w 2nd-strike #s

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Daryl G Kimball‏ @DarylGKimball 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @WonkVJ @wellerstein @NarangVipin

      Good discussion gents, but @WonkVJ your assertion that NK has "peculiar beliefs about coercion" don't seem to be supported by the KJU address or the 12/30 report published by KCNA. Can you elaborate? I believe @wellerstein has described the NK view of n-deterrence accurately.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @DarylGKimball @wellerstein @NarangVipin

      We're mostly on the same page. Described accurately, not completely. Here's a sample of NK's peculiar beliefs about coercion: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/the-ec-121-shoot-down-and-north-koreas-coercive-theory-victory …

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @WonkVJ @DarylGKimball and

      NK first-use is overdetermined. I was one of the earliest advocates of asymmetric escalation logic, but it's only one rationale that would lead to first-use

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @WonkVJ @DarylGKimball and

      My point is that even though NK sees its nukes as for deterrence, that's little relief because NK has a history of deterrence via offense. This is also one of the incidental findings from my first bookhttps://www.amazon.com/Rival-Reputations-Coercion-Credibility-Relations/dp/1107589800/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1514833371&sr=8-1&keywords=rival+reputations …

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @WonkVJ @DarylGKimball and

      It's peculiar to believe that deterrence is best achieved by going on the offense repeatedly (through the accumulation of violence)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 1 Jan 2018
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      Replying to @WonkVJ @DarylGKimball @NarangVipin

      Is it peculiar? Again I am just thinking about US behavior over last 60 years, in which deterrence of Soviets and spread of Communism was used repeatedly as motivation for getting involved with proxy wars, etc. I am just not so sure any of this is "peculiar."

      11:24 AM - 1 Jan 2018
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      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        1. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @wellerstein @DarylGKimball @NarangVipin

          Not sure of the benefit of litigating "peculiar." To me believing you can achieve deterrence by resorting to violence first is peculiar because it's aggressive and pathological. It overturns much of the third wave of deterrence theory. But you're right there's precedence

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 1 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @wellerstein @WonkVJ and

          (My general suspicion with DPRK is that somewhere they have a poli sci manual called "how deterrence works in the west" and they refer to it constantly. Their behavior with nukes seems textbook predictable to me — literally. More than US policy is, frankly.)

          2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
        3. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @wellerstein @DarylGKimball @NarangVipin

          I agree with this without caveats (a rarity!)

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. Daryl G Kimball‏ @DarylGKimball 1 Jan 2018
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @WonkVJ @wellerstein @NarangVipin

          Tx, though I still don't see much evidence that KJU sees value in nuke first use unless he believes NK is under attack or there is imminent threat of attack (which is basically U.S. posture). In any case, key takeaway fr NY address is the interest in NK-SK risk reduction talks.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Van Jackson‏ @WonkVJ 1 Jan 2018
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          Replying to @DarylGKimball @wellerstein @NarangVipin

          Agree w your last point. Was answering your initial Q about their beliefs about coercion. Re: first use, I don't see the US using nukes to escalate to de-escalate but I do think that's plausible (likely) for NK. That's huge difference between US and NK IMO. Otherwise same same

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation

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