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wellerstein's profile
Alex Wellerstein
Alex Wellerstein
Alex Wellerstein
Verified account
@wellerstein

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Alex WellersteinVerified account

@wellerstein

Historian of science, secrecy, and nuclear weapons. Professor of STS at @FollowStevens. UC Berkeley alum with a Harvard PhD. NUKEMAP creator. Coder and web dev.

Hoboken, NJ / NYC
blog.nuclearsecrecy.com
Joined September 2011

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    1. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Truman, following the advise instead of his Secretary of State, James Byrnes, deliberately decided not to do this. It isn't entirely clear why, but the fact that by then he felt that Japan was likely to surrender without an invasion anyway played into it.

      2 replies 15 retweets 170 likes
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    2. DSA Chemung County‏ @profunc 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein

      Another fact that plays into it is that he felt that softening the previously expressed "unconditional surrender" demand and cracking the door to negotiations would embolden Japan's militarists to think America was war weary and they could get a better deal by holding out.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. DSA Chemung County‏ @profunc 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @profunc @wellerstein

      Any reason you emphasize the "angry Truman wanted to strike out and punish the Japs" story ("for whatever it's worth") and suppress the "Truman wanted to end the bloodshed as rapidly as possible" one? Hmmm

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @profunc

      Hmm, I would disentangle this loaded question. I give emphasis to Truman's attitude towards not relaxing unconditional surrender, because it's important to make clear this was a choice by him (and what we have from him is a "gut" justification for it, not high strategy).

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

      That's not the same thing as saying that's why he wanted to use the bomb. I don't think that's actually the case. But at the same time, the "end the bloodshed" narrative doesn't really capture Truman's motivations at the time either, from what we can tell.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

      That's an after-the-fact motivation, one that interestingly does not really show up until after he learned that the atomic bombs had killed huge numbers of civilians. And one that doesn't get "cemented" as "the justification" until the war actually ends.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

      The attitudes of those involved in the decision to use the bomb were that one bomb, even two, probably wouldn't end the war. Groves thought it would take around EIGHT bombs. They were actually surprised it ended when it did.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

      But in general, I tried not to get too deep into internal motivations. It's hard to know those. Even at the time, people don't record them accurately — and may not even know them themselves, really. And most people become unreliable about them after the fact.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

      My main interest was in talking about the sequence of events, because even that basic knowledge is typically lacking. And if you don't have that, it's easy to fall into myths. In my experience most Americans don't even know the invasion wouldn't have started until November.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. DSA Chemung County‏ @profunc 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @wellerstein

      Well, I appreciate you engaging (I got into it yesterday with Martin who's not so 'academic' on this topic and it went badly lol!). But I think you're equivocating between "here's some basic factual corrections for people confused about timelines" and curating an anti-bomb case.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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      Replying to @profunc

      Some people think I'm curating an anti-bomb case, some people think I'm curating a pro-bomb case. I don't know; it's no-win territory. (I call myself an "inverse moderate" — I think everybody's a bit wrong.) I would prefer everyone to say, "this is pretty complicated."

      2:00 PM - 9 Aug 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

          I do think that the prevalence of the "orthodox" narrative — with its huge omissions — leads to the perception that anything more "comprehensive" about the decisions starts to look "anti-bomb." But that's an artifact of people's expectations.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

          To maybe put it another way: I'm certainly, in this Tweet storm, trying to dislodge the firmness of the "obviously pro-bomb" case. I'm not trying to nudge it into the "obviously anti-bomb" case, but rather put it in some kind of center-ground: "lots of stuff to think about."

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Alex Wellerstein‏Verified account @wellerstein 9 Aug 2018
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          Replying to @wellerstein @profunc

          I try to make very clear I don't think there are easy answers here, though I also state the areas where I do have some views (e.g., the need to think about Hiroshima and Nagasaki separately as questions of propriety, and not lump them).

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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