I don't see much of a correlation between what you wrote and what you screencapped; distinguishing between symbol and symbolized doesn't imply that symbols are useful without a working understanding of what they reference, however thinly functional
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Replying to @webdevMason @mechanicalmonk1
(How? Also what I wrote was Feynman in the same bit // forgot to put quotes)
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Replying to @auderdy @mechanicalmonk1
I don't care of it's Feynman, as stated it's not a reasonable claim. Maybe context would help.
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Replying to @webdevMason @mechanicalmonk1
Mentioned Feynman re correlation btw screen cap/quote. I do think he’s being a bit tongue&cheek, but also learning vague definitions is setting up buckets/organizing structure to contain knowledge “Knowing the names of things is useful if you want to talk to somebody else.”
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Replying to @auderdy @mechanicalmonk1
"Energy makes the toy move" is just a restatement of the unsolved "x makes the toy move," and it's one that actually makes most people worse off: if they ask a friend "what is energy?" they'll get a less applicable answer than "what makes the toy move?"
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Replying to @webdevMason @mechanicalmonk1
“The answer is a little unfortunate, because what they were trying to do is teach a definition of what is energy. But nothing whatever is learned.” The understanding of *definition* of a a word works on the realm of communication btw people as well as the *borders* of a concept
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Wierdly Feynman's has two different points - one is about invoking a word as the answer to a question rather than explaining a concept - the other is more subtly that energy doesn't work in the way the framing implies when you come to fill in the details later.
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Latter point hints at the crux of the issue to me, which is whether it's a good idea to try to educate children by way of models so sparse they don't even stand up to good questions. The problem is that most *adults* never realize that these aren't even good simplifications
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What do you do when the best understanding of reality is either too difficult or too time consuming to teach to the majority of people? In a sense you are looking for what option makes people most comfortable with their inevitable ignorance. But this doesn't seem very democratic.
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Replying to @EmmaJP9_ @webdevMason and
Unfortunately what I just said makes it seem like our education is bad on purpose, which I don't believe for a second. But there is probably some kind of functional explanation of how things became as they are under the given constraints.
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AFAICT, "call and response" has been the core format of mass child ed from its inception for religious purposes to the Prussian model and on. Children are expected to keep questions to the material, which usually just means "what the teacher knows how to provide answers for."
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Replying to @webdevMason @EmmaJP9_ and
What I'm pointing at here is a real tension between honesty/intellectual humility and the maintenance of authority, and I think modern schools are confused about what they're supposed to be doing. On top of that, most *teachers* think the abstractions work better than they do.
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Yes. I think the religious and Prussia are good examples of systems that explicitly set out to tell people what authority decides they should accept and not question. But the pedagogical aspects that are still with us seem to be based on the constraints of factory mass education
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