So, the other negative thing about being dishonest about attraction that I just realized is bugging me (didn't know where to post in myriad of threads...) A ton of guys have a lot of trouble telling when a girl is in to them. This practice of lying makes them LESS calibrated...
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Replying to @mattgoldenberg @webdevMason and
It may make that one interaction go smoother but it makes them questions themselves even more in later interactions (or the opposite, makes them way overconfident in every interaction). It makes the lives of both those men and the women they interact with worse.
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I really don't think that part of it has much to do with the means of issuing rejection. Game-playing between people who *want* to date is semi-intentional, generally out of the (sometimes reasonable) fear that showing too much interest will cause the other person to leave
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I think I agree that more of it comes from game-playing, but to me they both spring from the deeper frame that leads to both - putting immediate feelings and comfort over deeper values and consequences. You can't disentangle one from the other.
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If "he doesn't value my feelings" weren't pretty close to the #1 complaint women seem to have about the men they date, I might see the argument? As it stands, it kinda just sounds like you have a pretty thick skin and you think the game should favor people like you
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Matt Goldenberg Retweeted A
I don't think I see the connection between that statement and the current convo. Maybe you can point out the step? As an aside here's someone saying that this happened to them:https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexNelsonn18/status/1237177642929065987 …
Matt Goldenberg added,
A @AlexNelsonn18Replying to @ANiculitcheff @mattgoldenbergIdk, I’m beginning to not favor this approach. I’ve been on like 6 dates with this one woman already and everytime something small pops up I still convince myself that she doesn’t like me and is about to leave. Being indirect, as a society, breathes more life into this paranoia1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes -
"putting immediate feelings and comfort over deeper values and consequences" — if men think this is what is happening in the modern dating world, I don't think women would agree; I don't think they feel especially coddled or comforted.
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Replying to @webdevMason @mattgoldenberg and
I feel like you guys are talking past each other. Being indirect is a net negative because it’s disingenuous and sets the stage for miscommunication that just compounds over time. Now, I don’t think it’s something that can’t be overcome, it’s just an unnecessary hurdle
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Replying to @AlexNelsonn18 @mattgoldenberg and
tbf, I have no skin in the game. I don't "date" in the traditional sense because it has *never* been an enjoyable or effective way for me to find someone to be in a relationship with. I'm relaying information based on a lot of tears cried onto my shoulder. Take it or leave it.
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Replying to @webdevMason @AlexNelsonn18 and
I've seen this failure mode *a lot* in hippies. I knew a few people who would interpret indirectness as a sign of dishonesty and get weirdly judgemental about it, rather than actually working to make the person comfortable enough to be direct.
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Also seems to come up around poly/preference stuff more generally in those circles. There's a (maybe not so fine) line between asking someone to examine their feelings and just straight-up bullying them for not being able to draw an elegant logic around the way they feel
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Replying to @webdevMason @AlexNelsonn18 and
Oh and what do they do if you articulate a coherent logic? They try to out-logic you and find holes in it. "See? This is why you should TOTALLY not feel the way you do, and instead feel the way i want you to do. QED."
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Replying to @tangled_zans @AlexNelsonn18 and
Welp, eventually you figure out that there's a "right" answer — because it was always about compelling or permitting some specific thing and never about figuring out the optimal tradeoffs. Your feelings and your self-understanding are weighed against their utility for that.
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