How do I explain how hallucinogens cause hallucinations or the fact people are not normally hallucinating? (I'm not following, I'm afraid). My position is: the mind is universal explainer - not that all minds know how to do everything minds in principle are capable of doing.
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Replying to @ToKTeacher @MatjazLeonardis
i'm not sure how we disagree, then. If this is your position, I feel like your first reply was extremely misleading.
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Replying to @webdevMason @MatjazLeonardis
My fault for not expressing things more clearly. Given we agree minds are universal, it cannot be the case that there are "some things some people can do, in principle others cannot" nor that some skills can't be acquired unless we "alter the brain" as you said. :)
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Replying to @ToKTeacher @MatjazLeonardis
I don't *necessarily* agree that "minds are universal" — that's not my starting point nor a position I'm trying to defend, although I'm unswayed by arguments against it. I do think that some computations require inputs, memory or time that is not available to a human brain today.
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Replying to @webdevMason @MatjazLeonardis
Universality (of minds) is a software feature. Memory + time available (clock cycles) are properties of hardware (brains). I expect people to differ in the hardware to some extent...but this isn't what makes them people or "intelligent" on my view. The software does that.
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Replying to @ToKTeacher @MatjazLeonardis
Then frankly, please leave this stuff in philosophy club and out of my discussions on real human beings, who have hardware of various means bestowed upon them via mechanisms entirely beyond their control.
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...I don't fully buy my own sentiment, here, I just REALLY think there's another time and place when I'm trying to address a general audience that's suffering
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Based on what I know about your thoughts on education, a discussion involving hardware isn't what you want. You focus on the implicit / coersive memes that enable or inhibit learning on the software layer. The solution lies here, even for the lay person.
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Oh, FFS. What I want is a discussion where all the elements of what we think of as "intelligence" can be considered as a relationship between a person, the inputs available to them, and any limitations (including time) that impede the relationship. I want to understand.
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Replying to @webdevMason @ppostie and
I'm tired of drum-beaters who think that by obscuring some feature of the map that's irrelevant to their particular tune, they can obscure the territory itself. They end up looking naive at best and dishonest at worst, and when their ideas are useful it's painful to watch.
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If the message is "people should think about and work on what they actually like thinking about and working on," I'm there. 100%. But if you argue from what looks like naive blank-slatism, everything you want to avoid about hardware-as-destiny is recaptured in desire-as-destiny
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Replying to @webdevMason @ppostie and
Imagine the horrorshow associated with the following phrase: "If you really enjoyed this, you wouldn't be struggling with it so much." Maybe. Or maybe you could find one of any number of mediating obstacles between thinker and inputs, resolve it, and not gaslight anyone.
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Replying to @webdevMason @ppostie and
...and maybe you can't resolve it (yet, even if it is resolvable in theory), and the best you can do is find somewhat-effective workarounds. Maybe the struggles persist and progress is slow. Is that the end of the world? I don't think so.
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