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webdevMason's profile
Mason 🏃‍♂️✂️
Mason 🏃‍♂️✂️
Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️
@webdevMason

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Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️

@webdevMason

patreon.com/masonhartman
Joined July 2015

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    1. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @ESYudkowsky

      OK fine, I'll wade into this morass. Unpopular take: Everyone can learn to code. But not all "coding" is worthwhile for "everyone" to learn. Just like archery, welding, or setting your own broken arm bone.

      1 reply 1 retweet 22 likes
    2. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky

      "Coding" can be seen as a necessary evil to interface with modern, broken, terrible, incomplete, obfuscated computation systems. But it can also be seen as a general cognitive skill to express "repeated state evolution" in art & math (which is generalized study of structure).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky

      Coding is not a feat of strength. Some langs are terrible and offer very little expressiveness for the agony they impart. Some langs are dismissed as trivial, but I'll bet you that LOGO and a 3D printer in the hands of a skilled artist will spark more joy than RandoCodeBro.js

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky

      There are a huge number of reasons why not everyone can code to cobble together multiple complex virtual systems. But that doesn't mean we can't make "thinking about relationships of structures in iterated systems" be a generally accessible literacy.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky

      "Can everyone fly a pod racer?" asks Annakin. Well, yes - if they aren't cobbled together out of unstable junk, and if you don't make them fly 200mph through rocky canyons.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky

      In terms of pedagogy, like in the case of @webdevmason's poor friend who can't fizzbuzz: Based on my experience teaching coding to kids, tutoring CS in college, teaching Python to quants and scientists.. most programmers are terrible at teaching real people how to program.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky @webdevMason

      If you're not a systems thinker (and most humans are not), then 80% of the instruction time of programming has NOTHING to do with syntax, and EVERYTHING to do with hidden state, and the rules of the runtime. Basic programming should be taught at the whiteboard, not the screen.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky @webdevMason

      How many Python+Ruby+Java+C+Cpp+Javascript programmers are there in the world? It's far, far less than ~750 million Excel users. And while not all of those Excel users are building complex financial models, they are doing a type of coding that is meaningful and powerful.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky @webdevMason

      So I reflect the original question back: How do you demarcate the realm of "programming" such that 750MM excel programmers are on one side of the line, and all the fizz-buzz-segfault l33t hackers are on the other?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky @webdevMason

      More importantly, what does the salary distribution of Excel-wielding VPs vs. Emacs coding grunts say about the actual economic value of these different partitions of coders?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️‏ @webdevMason 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @pwang @ESYudkowsky

      “Most programmers are terrible at teaching real people to program... Basic programming should be taught at the whiteboard, not the screen.” Wut I don’t think *anything* should be taught at the whiteboard if it can be avoided & it seems borderline insane to do that with code

      11:31 PM - 4 Feb 2019
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      • Ibe Bryan Eliezer Yudkowsky JamesonLaw
      2 replies 2 retweets 3 likes
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        2. JamesonLaw‏ @JamesonHalpern 5 Feb 2019
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          Replying to @webdevMason @pwang @ESYudkowsky

          Seems correct, especially since you don't code a whiteboard, you code a computer. The whiteboard might have some usefulness to express certain concepts, but coding certainly seems like its best learnt by doing, at the computer.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Wes Turner‏ @westurner 5 Feb 2019
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          Replying to @JamesonHalpern @webdevMason and

          Coding on paper or a whiteboard reread requires the user to learn to simulate the state machine / computer in their head. I found it frustrating in HS and in college but now appreciate the exercise.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        2. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 5 Feb 2019
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          Replying to @webdevMason @ESYudkowsky

          I don't think it can be avoided. I learned to code by starting with simple runtimes (LOGO, BASIC). But once you get beyond that to procedural abstraction, collections of refs, loop variables, etc. - then you need to get a whiteboard and really walk folks thru the runtime model.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Peter Wang‏ @pwang 5 Feb 2019
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          Replying to @pwang @webdevMason @ESYudkowsky

          I didn't empathize with the lack of ability to model arbitrary systems until I tried explain for-loop (in Python) to somebody in a car. They *could not* understand how or why the loop var changed values.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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