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webdevMason's profile
Mason 🏃‍♂️✂️
Mason 🏃‍♂️✂️
Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️
@webdevMason

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Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️

@webdevMason

LA → Oakland
calendly.com/masonhartman
Joined July 2015

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    1. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @webdevMason @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      I think you're strawmanning. "Using reason and evidence to figure out how to do the most good" (what I said) != "doing good stuff better" (what you said). And yes, a single phrase cannot contain all the content around what we consider "good", but you can read the websites, (cont)

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    2. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @webdevMason and

      ... and if you do you'll see it's not empty. Basically all EA cashes out "good" in terms of the welfare of sentient beings, in a consequentialist, scope-sensitive way, w/out unfairly prioritizing a single time period, locality, or species. This is very unusual.

      2 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    3. Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️‏ @webdevMason 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      It feels like between you and Rob, I can't nail down a goalpost. If I zoom in, I'm ignoring x, y, & z; if I zoom out, I'm strawmanning. I agree that I'm having trouble finding the right level of resolution to carry a convo forward, but it doesn't feel like I'm getting much help.

      3 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    4. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @webdevMason @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      Well, usually when it feels like a disagreement keeps slipping away, and goalposts keep shifting, a good thing to do is to pin down an empirically testable prediction we disagree on. Which I'm totally happy to do; also happy to drop this if you feel like it's not your circus.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    5. Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️‏ @webdevMason 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      Happy to give feedback on e.g. a community survey, assuming (a) this ideological gap between the leadership and the rank-and-file might actually exist, and (b) might present a problem worth identifying and correcting, but otherwise: not my circus

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @webdevMason @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      Well, to the extent that you feel like I was being slippery & unhelpful (sorry, did not mean to!), I felt obliged to at try to spell out my views on everything we've discussed in these threads. You can disagree w/any part of it, or feel free to just ignore.pic.twitter.com/x67Bg74rj8

      2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    7. Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️‏ @webdevMason 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      In practice, I don't think the first paragraph describes the views of most EAs. I don't think most are nearly as time/species-neutral as the leadership is, and I suspect the leadership purposefully avoids pressing on this in order to keep the "big tent" intact.

      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
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    9. Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️‏ @webdevMason 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @robertwiblin @juliagalef @DavidDeutschOxf

      It'd be totally indefensible to claim that you *personally* soften any of your opinions on scope in order to be more palatable to anyone, Rob 😂 ...but the language from orgs does tend to be quite a lot softer. Caring about animals/future lives is not presented as an EA pre-req.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @webdevMason @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      TBC you can meet my description (cause-neutral in principle) while still, in practice, not prioritizing animals or the far-future. If, e.g., you think animals are likely not sentient, or you think our ability to affect the far future is minimal, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Mason  🏃‍♂️ ✂️‏ @webdevMason 18 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

      You can extend my argument further — that most of the leadership *do* believe that some non-human species are sentient & *do* believe we can affect the far future, but do not press on those claims in order to keep the "big tent" intact.

      1:51 PM - 18 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @webdevMason @robertwiblin @DavidDeutschOxf

          idk, EA leadership have been talking a *lot* about why they believe we can affect the far future. So the idea that they're deliberately not pressing on those claims in order to preserve the "big tent" doesn't ring true to me.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 18 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @juliagalef @webdevMason and

          I do think the phenomenon you're pointing at was true for a period from, like, 2015-2016, or something, that there was a mismatch between what core EA folks believed and what they emphasized publicly. But they've been trying to close that gap in the last couple years.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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