And, yes they are.
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Replying to @DavidDeutschOxf @webdevMason
So I guess the issue is that you reject attributing this behviour to children because even if it's more prevalent for young children there exists a better explanation ie using violence or anger to get one's way is morally bad?
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Replying to @lonewolfdion @webdevMason
If they get their way, what's the point of violence & anger? But they don't, do they? So I want a deeper explanation: why is someone in a situation where they seemingly want something impossible, and futilely hurt themselves when they don't get it? This can't have evolved, right?
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Replying to @DavidDeutschOxf @webdevMason
Cries presumably evolved to signal distress to a parent. But when a child learns that crying can be used as a means of obtaining what they want in all situations and this is reinforced by the parents it leads to legitimising certain behaviour.
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Replying to @lonewolfdion @webdevMason
Sort of. But that's again a backwards way of putting it. Here's an intuition pump: Think what you'd guess a husband is really doing, if he says that very thing about his wife.
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Replying to @DavidDeutschOxf @webdevMason
I think what your getting at is that it's the husband who is in the wrong for allowing violence to become the only recourse?
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Replying to @lonewolfdion @webdevMason
Yes, but it's only an intuition pump, not an exact analogy. Spouses should indeed have an equal relationship, but parents have far more obligations to their children than vice-versa, or to each other.
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Spouses also have roughly equal intelligence and capacity to delay gratification. Children are very stupid and short sighted. A responsible parent does not allow children to harm themselves in enjoyable ways (see: the all-cookie diet). This is upsetting to the child.
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If you provide a child with something like sugar — a superstimulus even many adults can't consume in moderation — and then take them someplace with familiar treats visible but out of reach, yes, the typical child *will* be upset. Predictably. So who's fault is it when it happens?
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Replying to @webdevMason @AndreTI and
Superstimuli, including sugar, go via human thinking. So not everyone / every child would have that response. (For what it's worth, as a child I generally much preferred savoury to sweet things. Sweets weren't limited or stigmatised for me, so I didn't get weird around them.)
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Sure, I buy mental models as a pervasive & under-appreciated mediating force, with food-as-reward reinforcing specific food rewards as well as whatever you think you're rewarding, both familiarity & scarcity factored in, etc. Tough not to pass on counterproductive models though!
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Replying to @webdevMason @reasonisfun and
Also suspect a lot of children are just made to go hungry longer than necessary (for convenience, or discipline, or whatever), which seems likely to tilt prefs. Lots going on with food.
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