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wdormann's profile
Will Dormann
Will Dormann
Will Dormann
@wdormann

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Will Dormann

@wdormann

Vulnerability Analyst at the CERT/CC. My thoughts are my own, not my employer's.

Joined August 2012

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    1. Scott Piper‏ @0xdabbad00 14 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @markwo @wdormann

      No, ASLR only works if the binary was compiled with relocations. See the section ASLR->Weaknesses in my old report http://0xdabbad00.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/emet_4_1_uncovered.pdf …

      3 replies 0 retweets 9 likes
    2. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @0xdabbad00 @markwo

      Is eqnedt32.exe really lacking a relocation table? And if so, what are you using to come to this conclusion?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Scott Piper‏ @0xdabbad00 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @wdormann @markwo

      Ah, it does have a .reloc section (from dumpbin). I didn't expect a .exe from 2000 to have that. My apologies. ASLR will work.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @0xdabbad00 @markwo

      What's confusing to me is why despite having a relocation section, system-wide ASLR does *NOT* randomize the loaded address. It's loaded at 0x10000 every time for me, even if mandatory ASLR is enabled system-wide using either EMET or WDEG. @epakskape

      2 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
    5. Matt Miller‏ @epakskape 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @wdormann @0xdabbad00 @markwo

      The entropy for force relocated images comes from bottom-up ASLR which is only enabled by default if the EXE was built with /dynamicbase. Try turning on bottom-up ASLR as well.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @epakskape @0xdabbad00 @markwo

      Thanks. I'm pretty sure that Bottom-up ASLR is enabled along with Mandatory ASLR. But eqnedt32.exe is always loaded at the same location.pic.twitter.com/zFgmbByCEP

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Matt Miller‏ @epakskape 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @wdormann @0xdabbad00 @markwo

      I believe "on by default" means "use the default system policy" which means bottom-up ASLR will only be enabled if the EXE was linked with /dynamicbase (which this one does not, I believe). Sound right, @markwo?

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Mark Wodrich‏ @markwo 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @epakskape @wdormann @0xdabbad00

      Yeah, that's right. I was seeing what Will describes last night until I enabled bottom-up ASLR for this process in Exploit Guard

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @markwo @epakskape @0xdabbad00

      Is there any way to enable Bottom-up ASLR on a system-wide basis? If not, then it would seem that Mandatory ASLR only really adds protection for apps that opt in. Which seems sort of non-Mandatory to me...

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    10. Matt Miller‏ @epakskape 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @wdormann @markwo @0xdabbad00

      It is possible to enable bottom-up ASLR system-wide, but I'm not sure if it can be done via the WDEG UI, @markwo might know. Agree with your feedback here. I passed it on to the team.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 15 Nov 2017
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      Replying to @epakskape @markwo @0xdabbad00

      Actually, with Windows 7 and EMET System-wide ASLR, the loaded address for eqnedt32.exe is different on every reboot. But with Windows 10 with either EMET or WDEG, the base for eqnedt32.exe is 0x10000 EVERY TIME. Conclusion: Win10 cannot be enforce ASLR as well as Win7!pic.twitter.com/Jp10nqk1NQ

      1:52 PM - 15 Nov 2017
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      • Matt Suiche @ #OPCDE2020 Daliot 10010010 2*yo Ed Moore Joshua Briefman Bank Security vinceromney Deniyal Torvaladze
      4 replies 60 retweets 100 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Matt Miller‏ @epakskape 21 Nov 2017
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          Replying to @wdormann @markwo @0xdabbad00

          For those of you catching up on this thread, MSRC has published a blog post clarifying the behavior that was observed here and how to workaround it:https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/srd/2017/11/21/clarifying-the-behavior-of-mandatory-aslr/ …

          1 reply 7 retweets 14 likes
        3. LukÄç.jpg.exe‏ @boondaburrah 21 Nov 2017
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          Replying to @epakskape @SwiftOnSecurity and

          As a user, our IT had forced ASLR and random chrome tabs became unusable, some apps just wouldn't work, and the way cygwin shells fork to create new processes would just insta SEGFAULT. These were company supported apps. Please be careful with ASLR.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        4. 4 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Mathew Schwartz‏ @mathewjschwartz 21 Nov 2017
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          Replying to @wdormann @epakskape and

          Hi Will, I'm reporting on this flaw for @DataBreachToday ... Did you find it after digging into the Embedi "skeletons" blog post? Just curious, cheers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 21 Nov 2017
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          Replying to @mathewjschwartz @epakskape and

          Yep, I was looking into what mitigations would have protected users against the eqnedt32 vulnerability when I noticed the problem.

          3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 3 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Maxim Nosovets‏ @molny 21 Nov 2017
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          Replying to @wdormann @epakskape and

          Patch by @BleepinComputer breaks #PhpStorm (maybe other products of #JetBrains and any #Java application too) on #Windows (Windows 8.1, x64)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann 21 Nov 2017
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          Replying to @molny @BleepinComputer

          I don't see any problems with Java applications in general when mandatory ASLR is enabled. PhpStorm in particular appears to be written in a way that is not compatible with the ASLR exploit mitigation, though.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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