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wdormann's profile
Will Dormann
Will Dormann
Will Dormann
@wdormann

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Will Dormann

@wdormann

Vulnerability Analyst at the CERT/CC. My thoughts are my own, not my employer's.

Joined August 2012

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    1. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT Feb 6
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      Dave dwizzzle Weston Retweeted SwiftOnSecurity

      Truth is all fancy EDRs and endpoint security can be disabled by an attack like this. With Driver control using HVCI on Windows 10 this attack is prevented. You don’t need to buy this, it’s included in Windows 10 pro and up. All Secured core PCs have it on by default.https://twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/1225494447980453890 …

      Dave dwizzzle Weston added,

      SwiftOnSecurity @SwiftOnSecurity
      Absolutely fantastic post by @Sophos. As a defender, highly detailed breakdowns of the precise operation of malware with annotated decompilations is greatly appreciated. https://twitter.com/SophosLabs/status/1225451243902054403 …
      6 replies 61 retweets 243 likes
      Show this thread
    2. SwiftOnSecurity‏ @SwiftOnSecurity Feb 6
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT

      Oh that layer works without a Device Guard policy?

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    3. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT Feb 6
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      Replying to @SwiftOnSecurity

      We have a default policy when hvci is enabled. You can just merge in these drivers if you want or even better just create a Corp wide allow list based on audits and the powe shell tools. You can actually use software KMCI as well if for some reason you don’t want to use VBS

      2 replies 1 retweet 15 likes
    4. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann Feb 6
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @SwiftOnSecurity

      Any tips on how to parse this collection of words about HVCI?pic.twitter.com/fy8mi0m3J2

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT Feb 6
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      Replying to @wdormann @SwiftOnSecurity

      Yeah we need to fix that doc. Okay so basically here is the deal. hvci gives the secure kernel control over all executable pages for both kernel and user mode

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    6. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT Feb 6
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @wdormann @SwiftOnSecurity

      So what that means is on older CPU when hvci is enabled every time a USER or KERNEL image gets loaded we have to VM Exit into secure kernel to check against policy

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    7. Greg C. Gilbert‏ @GregCGilbert Feb 6
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @wdormann @SwiftOnSecurity

      I missed this in the documentation at my last job and enabled HVCI on older PCs. It basically made Excel completely useless because of the performance hit. And to turn it off you have to physically touch the machine, it can't be scripted.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann Feb 6
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      Replying to @GregCGilbert @dwizzzleMSFT @SwiftOnSecurity

      It would be interesting to see some real-world statistics for how HVCI affects performance. Both with a modern-enough CPU to support the performance enhancements that @dwizzzleMSFT mentioned, as well as with systems that aren't so lucky.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Greg C. Gilbert‏ @GregCGilbert Feb 6
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      Replying to @wdormann @dwizzzleMSFT @SwiftOnSecurity

      I didn't run any benchmarks, but I didn't see any noticeable performance difference on 7th Gen or later with HVCI on.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT Feb 6
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      Replying to @GregCGilbert @wdormann @SwiftOnSecurity

      This is expected you would only see smaller changes in specific benchmarks which is why we should clarify the docs

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Will Dormann‏ @wdormann Feb 9
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @GregCGilbert @SwiftOnSecurity

      And just in case anyone is tempted to kick the wheels on HVCI, be aware that the 7th Generation Intel Core processors that support the optimization required to use it efficiently was released 3 years ago. If your computer isn't "new" or if you use VMware, you're probably SOL.

      10:53 AM - 9 Feb 2020
      • 1 Like
      • Platform Security Summit
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT Feb 9
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          Replying to @wdormann @GregCGilbert @SwiftOnSecurity

          I don't know if I agree that it's required to use it "efficient" MBEC is about getting you close to perf neutral. HVCI without MBEC still has light years less overhead than less effective protectiona like AV

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Will Dormann‏ @wdormann Feb 9
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          Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @GregCGilbert @SwiftOnSecurity

          This is where I'd like to see some benchmarks I guess. Greg says on an older processor the machine became essentially unusable. I cannot test this myself as my work machine has VMware Workstation on it and so anything needing Hyper-V is out of the question. My home PC is too old.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 14 more replies

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