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wcrichton's profile
Will Crichton
Will Crichton
Will Crichton
@wcrichton

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Will Crichton

@wcrichton

Articulating the ineffable. Programming language theory 🤝 cognitive psychology. PhD @Stanford

he/him
willcrichton.net
Joined September 2011

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    1. Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 27 Dec 2020

      Will Crichton Retweeted Stephen Diehl

      Programmers can make and gradually change these choices within a single language and ecosystem: - Dynamically vs statically typed (vs theorem prover) - Garbage collected vs ownership-based memory management Python, OCaml, and Rust merge (in spirit) to become this language.https://twitter.com/smdiehl/status/1342886946775965697 …

      Will Crichton added,

      Stephen Diehl @smdiehl
      Whats your most optimistic projection for what programming will look like in 2030?
      Show this thread
      2 replies 1 retweet 13 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 27 Dec 2020

      My longstanding dream: what would it take to implement OCaml in Rust, such that you automatically get (at least) the stdlib and package manager for free?

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Yawar Amin لول‏ @yawaramin 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @wcrichton

      Maybe surprisingly little--only OCaml's runtime system is written in C. Everything else--parser, typechecker, emitter, libraries--are OCaml. Imagine if we were to re-implement only (parts of) the runtime system in Rust.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @yawaramin

      When I say “get the stdlib for free” I mean eg that OCaml’s array type would actually be Rust’s Vec<T>. Then OCaml code could easily call Rust code and vice versa.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Yawar Amin لول‏ @yawaramin 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @wcrichton

      Oh I see, something like what BuckleScript (now ReScript) has done for JavaScript. Or Elixir for Erlang.

      1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes
    6. Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @yawaramin

      Yes, like that. The PL challenge is how to automatically lift an API designed eg for ownership into one that works with garbage collection. For example, guard pattern (eg releasing mutex in destructor) is hard without ownership.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Sam Westrick‏ @shwestrick 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @wcrichton @yawaramin

      Well, GC is more general so you could just “forget” about the ownership and let the GC rediscover it. It’s easy to tack finalizers onto objects to be able to call some arbitrary code when an object is collected. But perhaps the performance of this would be unacceptable?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Sam Westrick‏ @shwestrick 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @shwestrick @wcrichton @yawaramin

      (as reference counting techniques become more efficient, we may see some of these performance issues with GC become much less of a problem.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 27 Dec 2020
      Replying to @shwestrick @yawaramin

      It’s not just about efficiency but API semantics. Many langs have proxies for scoped destructors, eg Python with-block or use of try/finally in Java. You get this for free with ownership but need a separate feature with GC.

      6:21 PM - 27 Dec 2020
      • 3 Likes
      • Roman Lipovsky Sam Westrick brogician
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Sam Westrick‏ @shwestrick 27 Dec 2020
          Replying to @wcrichton @yawaramin

          Ah good point, although, you can make that happen with a ref-counting GC: allocate an object (with the appropriate finalizer) at the beginning of the scope, and then drop the object when you exit the scope.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Sam Westrick‏ @shwestrick 27 Dec 2020
          Replying to @shwestrick @wcrichton @yawaramin

          On the surface it seems like this would work, because if you had any cascading destructors, they would naturally be acyclic. But perhaps there’s a lurking nasty subtlety

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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