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wcrichton's profile
Will Crichton
Will Crichton
Will Crichton
@wcrichton

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Will Crichton

@wcrichton

Articulating the ineffable. Programming language theory 🤝 cognitive psychology. PhD @Stanford

he/him
willcrichton.net
Joined September 2011

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    1. Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 21 Jul 2020

      Are there any programming languages with *intentionally* unsound static type systems?

      13 replies 6 retweets 21 likes
    2. Josh Horowitz‏ @qualmist 21 Jul 2020
      Replying to @wcrichton

      Does TypeScript count? https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/type-compatibility.html … says things like "The places where TypeScript allows unsound behavior were carefully considered", which sounds like what you're looking for.

      1 reply 0 retweets 12 likes
    3. Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 21 Jul 2020
      Replying to @qualmist

      Will Crichton Retweeted Will Crichton

      It does, although I'm realizing "sound" is hard to characterize. In a PLT sense, Typescript statics + dynamics are collectively sound b/c anything not caught by type system is checked at runtime. No stuck states / UB / segfaults / etc.https://twitter.com/wcrichton/status/1285700061712785408 …

      Will Crichton added,

      Will Crichton @wcrichton
      Replying to @wcrichton @nick_r_cameron
      Hmm, the original tweet may be poorly phrased. This is the kind of example I want, but the Dart type system is still sound here when paired with runtime checks. Like soundness of gradual typing.
      6 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 21 Jul 2020
      Replying to @wcrichton @qualmist

      The distinction matters b/c the TS designers are only sacrificing completeness of their type system (wrt to goal of no UB), not soundness. I'm also interested in languages that gave up soundness in this sense.

      4:06 PM - 21 Jul 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. John Renner‏ @thedjrenren 21 Jul 2020
          Replying to @wcrichton @qualmist

          It depends whether you would count a runtime type exception as unsoundness. I think it’s fair to call these similar to segfaults. TS remains “object-safe” at runtime (no buffer overflows) but you can also try to set a field on an integer by accident.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Daniel Rosenwasser‏ @drosenwasser 21 Jul 2020
          Replying to @thedjrenren @wcrichton @qualmist

          Yeah, the closest thing to "stuck" that people have in mind is hitting an exception, but even then `undefined + 42` doesn't cause an exception to be thrown.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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