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wcrichton's profile
Will Crichton
Will Crichton
Will Crichton
@wcrichton

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Will Crichton

@wcrichton

Articulating the ineffable. Programming language theory 🤝 cognitive psychology. PhD @Stanford

he/him
willcrichton.net
Joined September 2011

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    1. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 25 Oct 2019

      Sam Tobin-Hochstadt Retweeted Dr. Amy J. Ko

      Hot take: Amy's comment about how "functional programming languages" are not in the area of "ideas that are valuable to people", not epistemology, is what demonstrates why PL researchers don't collaborate with HCI people.https://twitter.com/amyjko/status/1187503970228547584 …

      Sam Tobin-Hochstadt added,

      Dr. Amy J. Ko @amyjko
      It was a wonderful day at the PLATEAU workshop! Read on for a brief report of what we shared, what we learned, and what I think about about the future of research at the intersection of HCI and PL: https://medium.com/bits-and-behavior/plateau-2019-trip-report-building-community-around-human-aspects-of-programming-languages-c70e893930ce …
      4 replies 1 retweet 14 likes
    2. Dr. Amy J. Ko‏ @amyjko 25 Oct 2019
      Replying to @samth

      That’s quite the overinterpretation of what I said. Just words after you the part you excepted, I framed FP as provocative visions of a better future. No need to get tribal on a philosophical point about aesthetic differences.

      1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
    3. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @amyjko

      Right, that is precisely my point. Thinking that FP is a provocative vision of the future rather than something useful for getting work done today *is* the difference in perspective I'm pointing to. That's a gap in what we think is happening today, not in epistemology.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Sam Tobin-Hochstadt‏ @samth 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @samth @amyjko

      Sam Tobin-Hochstadt Retweeted Sam Tobin-Hochstadt

      Maybe this analogy is helpfulhttps://twitter.com/samth/status/1187906887003582465?s=19 …

      Sam Tobin-Hochstadt added,

      Sam Tobin-Hochstadt @samth
      Replying to @wilbowma
      Let me put it a different way. Lots of people in other parts of CS think that PL studies functional programming with the intention of it being useful in the far future, sort of like quantum computing. This is very much not most PL people's conception of what they're doing.
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dr. Amy J. Ko‏ @amyjko 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @samth

      Maybe the confusion here is what constitutes "far future" and "current practice". There are some functional ideas in many of the most popular languages, and those functional features are increasingly popular. Maybe that's what you're referring to?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. ShriramKrishnamurthi‏ @ShriramKMurthi 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @amyjko @samth

      That seems like giving the least possible credit. There are entire production systems written primarily in Haskell, Erlang, pretty-functional OCaml, Racket, etc. Why do those not count? »

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Dr. Amy J. Ko‏ @amyjko 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @samth

      Who said they didn’t count? There are plenty of practical systems that leverage functional programming and plenty of impractical ideas in HCI. Again, I’m not making universal, categorical claims, just distributional ones.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. ShriramKrishnamurthi‏ @ShriramKMurthi 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @amyjko @samth

      "new [.…] paradigms that require entirely reshaping the world" pretty clearly suggests that those things aren't really in use, because the world (by definition) has not been "reshaped"… ("entirely", no less!). "require"; "entirely"; "the world" — not "universal", "categorical"?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. பேராசிரியர் Prem Devanbu‏ @devanbu 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @amyjko @samth

      Positions seem compatible. Amy is making a distributional (not existential) argument. Most code around these days is not in the functional paradigm. If the functional paradigm were to take over, it would be a "world reshaping" event. C.f. "earthmover's distance" :)

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Will Crichton‏ @wcrichton 26 Oct 2019
      Replying to @devanbu @ShriramKMurthi and

      Agreed. Jane Street, for example, had to basically rebuild OCaml's ecosystem from scratch to build their company around it. They reshaped the world, just very locally.

      6:07 PM - 26 Oct 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        1. ShriramKrishnamurthi‏ @ShriramKMurthi 26 Oct 2019
          Replying to @wcrichton @devanbu and

          . @yminsky can confirm, but pretty sure Jane Street *chose* to rebuild. (And your first rebuild causality is pointing the wrong way.) Whereas Target (say) uses Haskell but they haven't had to "reshape the world" to do it. You can actually interop over ASCII, TCP, etc. <-;

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        2. ShriramKrishnamurthi‏ @ShriramKMurthi 26 Oct 2019
          Replying to @ShriramKMurthi @wcrichton and

          So I don't see how you've confirmed anything. All you've said is that one can, if they so choose, rebuild their world. Nobody's denied that. Nothing says you HAVE to. (Like Target, so also Facebook, etc. Fb has both Haskell and PHP without any earthmovers.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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