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warrenm's profile
Warren Moore
Warren Moore
Warren Moore
@warrenm

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Warren Moore

@warrenm

Software engineer specializing in mobile graphics and augmented reality. Author of “Metal by Example”

San Francisco, CA
metalbyexample.com
Joined April 2008

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    1. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 9

      So apparently what the book Real-Time Rendering means by “row-major” or “column-major” is not the same thing other sources mean when they use these words (sources like FGED, Game Engine Architecture, or Wikipedia). TLDR, row-major is not the same concept as row-vector convention.

      5 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. Eric Lengyel‏ @EricLengyel Aug 10
      Replying to @meb_michael

      I'm curious to see what you're talking about. What edition of RTR, and what page?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 10
      Replying to @EricLengyel

      In the 4th edition on page 60, first paragraph (in section 4.1.1 on Translation). I’m trying to see if this is in the third edition as well, since it seems so familiar—but at the very least it’s not in that section in 3rd ed.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 10
      Replying to @meb_michael @EricLengyel

      In the 3rd edition the context is slightly different, and they use the terms “row major” and “column major” in the footnote of p 61 (section 4.1.5 Concatenation of Transforms) and at the end of section 4.6.1 on p 92. I think this usage is not what others typically mean?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 10
      Replying to @meb_michael @EricLengyel

      But the 4th edition goes a little further (as I mentioned in an earlier tweet) and does discuss the storage of elements, specifically that the translation components are always the last 4 elements of the data structure in either form. I think this still misses the distinction?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Eric Lengyel‏ @EricLengyel Aug 10
      Replying to @meb_michael

      Yes, this still misses the distinction. You can still use column vectors but have row-major matrix storage, and the translation components are *not* in the last 4 elements of the matrix data structure. (Same for row vectors and column-major matrix storage.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Warren Moore‏ @warrenm Aug 10
      Replying to @EricLengyel @meb_michael

      I haven’t read the latest RTR, but, storage considerations aside, is there a name for the convention that selects pre- or post-multiplication? I always see it explained longhand, as in “by convention we treat vectors as columns and multiply with the matrix on the left”

      11:07 PM - 10 Aug 2018
      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 10
          Replying to @warrenm @EricLengyel

          I’m wondering that as well. The closest I’ve found is “column vector convention” (which also yields results on Wikipedia, for whatever that’s worth). I tried to dig into the reasoning for using column vectors a while back, and I think it comes from systems of equations.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 10
          Replying to @meb_michael @warrenm @EricLengyel

          I don’t see these terms in Arthur Cayley’s 1858 “A Memoir on the Theory of Matrices”, and vectors aren’t vertical that far back, but they are on the right side of the matrix, and the matrices do hold the typical appearance, being shorthand for systems of linear equations.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 11
          Replying to @warrenm @EricLengyel

          I’ve seen “row vector convention” or “column vector convention” in a few books, and Strang’s Linear Algebra mentions “column vector”, but does not name a “convention”. Historically it seems the ordering came before naming the one part “vector” or considering it to be a matrix.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        3. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 11
          Replying to @meb_michael @warrenm @EricLengyel

          (Judging by some of the earliest works, that is.) It seems Cayley considered what we think of as a vector to be part of an equation, and doesn’t give it a name (that I can see) or consider it to be a matrix. (He speaks of “the matrix”.) But the ordering is all there.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Michael Baxter‏ @meb_michael Aug 11
          Replying to @meb_michael @warrenm @EricLengyel

          So then it may be that an actual term came about when the thing became considered both a vector and a matrix and became by convention a column. Maybe the early 1900s? I think a lot of standardization/generalization work took place in the early 1900s.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. End of conversation

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