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vgr's profile
Venkatesh Rao
Venkatesh Rao
Venkatesh Rao
@vgr

Tweets

Venkatesh Rao

@vgr

This is my conversational account. For my work follow @ribbonfarm, @breaking_smart, @artofgig. Tweets are 90% vacuous views, apathetically held. Mediocritopian.

Los Angeles, CA
venkateshrao.com
Joined August 2007

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    1. Patrick Bergel‏ @goodmachine 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @vgr

      No serious and consequential debates are decided like that, by definition. Your examples are?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @goodmachine

      Let me flip the question around for you. What serious and consequential debates were decided by one side admitting the other side was right and getting on board? (as opposed to just quitting the conversation)

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Víctor Marín‏ @Erthelillo 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @vgr @goodmachine

      Possibly scientific debates, but might be more like next generation discarding one of the views. Which is similar to winning because the other side diez.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @Erthelillo @goodmachine

      This is the main case I'm thinking of actually. Famous idea (Kuhn I think) that a new paradigm is accepted because the old academics resisting it die out, not because they're convinced

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Patrick Bergel‏ @goodmachine 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @vgr @Erthelillo

      Max Planck said "science progresses one death at a time" so I guess there is a case to be made there.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @goodmachine @Erthelillo

      Another similar in spirit example is legislation. Left and right rarely work together. They just move their policy agendas forward when they have majority. Consistently losing ideologies drop out of the legislation game rather than accepting the winning view.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Patrick Bergel‏ @goodmachine 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @vgr @Erthelillo

      Tactical retreat is not surrender.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Patrick Bergel‏ @goodmachine 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @goodmachine @vgr @Erthelillo

      To return to your original assertion, I cannot think of any examples that were 'won' by default in any domain. Defeat postponed is not victory either.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @goodmachine @Erthelillo

      broader point is finite vs. infinite game (play to win/play to continue the game). Consequential debates are almost by definition infinite game. There is no ultimate victory or defeat. Only tactical ones. There's only staying or quitting longer term.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Patrick Bergel‏ @goodmachine 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @vgr @Erthelillo

      Perhaps, but only abstractly. Hence my tedious insistence on concrete examples. To add: Carse's thinking is not well-formed, to put mildly.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 16 Dec 2017
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      Replying to @goodmachine @Erthelillo

      Likewise I think it's your position that needs examples 😂. If I squint all examples appear to fit my model at least approximately. Marital disagreements are a good clear example. Most are resolved by one spouse deciding to accept without conceding. 'This too shall pass'

      1:34 PM - 16 Dec 2017
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        2. Patrick Bergel‏ @goodmachine 16 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @vgr @Erthelillo

          Well, I wasn't the one making the original assertion, so the onus is perhaps on you. In marital disagreements I prefer to defer, because mine are (happily enough) not terribly serious or consequential, which I gather was the topic ;)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 16 Dec 2017
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          Replying to @goodmachine @Erthelillo

          I don't buy that burden of proof heuristic. It's on the side making the tighter claim. I've provided a few but I see no clear examples of yours yet. Climate change might be one soon, where skeptics are won over by accumulating evidence

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