Conversation

Most people don’t realize Foundation is not 3 books but like 14 Caves of Steel Naked Sun Robots of Dawn Robots and Empire Pebble in the Sky Stars, Like Dust Currents of Space Prelude Forward Foundation Foundation and Empire Second Foundation Foundations Edge Foundation and Earth
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Counting only the ones by Asimov himself. The saga is huge, and connects full circle. Psychohistory evolves as an extension of the 3 laws. The middle books (dawn —> forward) are ecology-dominated the way Dune people like.
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Many prefer reading in order written which is how I read as a teenager, but a couple of years ago I reread in in-universe order (as listed) and the effect was very powerful.
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The last written books are of course more accomplished. Robots and Empire, Prelude, and Forward are almost ersatz-literary. But I actually prefer the somewhat concept heavy older work where Asimov’s weak literary skill actually makes the story work better.
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If you’re into rich, visceral texture or something, go read stuff like China Mieville. This is for the unsentimental macro people who like their human characters insect-scale and their plots like statistical physics.
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I’ve been trash-talking the Dune crowd, but I *have* read like 4 volumes, watched the old movie and will watch new one. It’s okay, but for me it’s uncanny valley between fun fiction and nonfiction, too self-important, and a slog. I’d rather just read actual history.
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Iain M. Banks’ Culture novels kinda give you the best of both styles and more, but are ahistorical which means they don’t scratch the grand/history itch like either Foundation or Dune.
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I think Foundation vs Dune preference is kinda an indicator of low vs high anthropocentrism in tastes. Not tech vs ecology like some are arguing. Both tech and ecology feature strongly in both.
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Replying to
He reads wooden and dated today. Others did and do almost every technical aspect of science fiction far better these days. Their stuff is also more richly imagined. But Asimov’s Gordian-knot-cutting boldness remains unmatched (a lot of it actually due to John W. Campbell)
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Where I’m coming from… I read space opera primarily for fun allegory, not realism. I find hard sci-if that takes the vastness of space too seriously (galactic empires are basically a ridiculous idea), like Vernor Vinge, less fun. Without hyperspace drives I’m basically out.
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This is one of the biggest draws for me. Everyman competent bureaucrat type unheroes. Not mythologized chosen ones and Kwisatz Haderach crap.
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Replying to @vgr
Dunno if he feels dated today. He actually reads fresh, devoid of cliches and hero’s journey garbage. The procedural nature of Foundation is what makes the passage of time feel interesting. Not the emotional arc of a character.
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Interestingly these things are not absent in Asimov. They’re just relegated to B-plot villain status. There are always minor cults and messiahs in the plots. But robots and regular guys run the show. Paul Attreides would map to the Mule. An annoying statistical anomaly to correct
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Replying to
Dunno if he feels dated today. He actually reads fresh, devoid of cliches and hero’s journey garbage. The procedural nature of Foundation is what makes the passage of time feel interesting. Not the emotional arc of a character.
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