Conversation

Replying to
Citizen science around Covid is a good example. There was actual tension. Mutual hostility and suspicion between institutional and citizen science. A suspicious crowd checking up on CDC math. Often incompetently, and cargo-culting “scientific method”. But truly independently.
1
19
This is probably a good thing in the long run. Institutional vs indie science should probably be a slightly tense relationship of slight mutual hostility and check-and-balance dynamics. Not worshipful reverence and indulgent accommodation/co-option.
2
27
Crudely, it’s the 0-1 vs 1-n distinction in science. Ontological rather than epistemic advances. Disruption of empiricist paradigms. Kuhnian revolutions in experimental cultures 🤔
1
13
This should be an interesting counterpoint view from a pro-astronomer, especially since astronomy and microscopy are the 2 prototypical fields I’ve had in mind in this thread.
Quote Tweet
Replying to @vgr
This will be lengthy response, so before I get into it, and for your many intellectually curious followers: Whether in Pasadena or Lagos, anyone can play with a ton of *amazing* public (=open) data with huge discovery space. Most professional astronomers rely on these datasets.
1
7
Interesting view from Chris (who has incidentally done one of the most interesting bits of independent scholarship I know of, using public satellite data sets to directly confirm radiation forcing effects in CO2 absorption spectra).
Quote Tweet
Replying to @vgr
Possibly little overlap between theorist and experimentalist skill sets. Novel untested theories + experimentalist = ideas for new test apparatuses. Theorist + unexplained experimental measurements = new theories to fit the data This seemingly happened again and again for…
1
11
Agree equipment fetishism is an adjacent risk, but it’s I think mistaken to conflate the value of instruments with the value of data they produce. If I had a Hubble level budget I wouldn’t build an exact clone of Hubble for eg. There’s primary value at the instrumentation level.
Quote Tweet
Replying to @vgr
I would rather get Hubble data that pay for top shelf personal telescopes any day. LHC Data > making your own linear accelerator. I think equipment fetishism creeps in often and muddied the waters of discovery by amateurs. Bleeding edge already publicly available...as data :)
1
6
Linking in a short response to Gregory’s detailed response thread focusing on public-dataset astronomy (linked further upstream; worth reading)
Quote Tweet
Replying to @GregHerczeg
Thanks for the detailed response. I’ve linked it into main thread for visibility. I agree this is a powerful mode of discovery as well as a powerful social model. I’m not disputing that, or that there’s always a social > individual/lone wolf dimension. But…
1
4
In summary, I’m wary of overindexing on public datasets. They’re great but not a substitute for an indie ability to generate data. Data is better than models, but still… it’s a sort of map, not the territory. The only way to access territory is the instruments themselves.
Replying to
Also, I’m alive to the importance of social collaboration. I ‘d just like more ways to do that besides the institutionally orchestrated mode. It’s not just some sort of larp/romantic yearning to want (for eg) a version of the “gentleman science” republic-of-letters mode…
2
10
…I kid around that I’d like my own mansion with mad scientist lab, over participating in mainstream publish-or-perish mode. I have my issues with Wolfram, but kinda great that he pulled that off. I’d like lots more wolframs, to complement/compete with institutionalized science.
3
18
Another thing… too much attention on young people. That’s raw talent feedstock for institutional science. For the more heterodox borderline-crackpot type I think is higher interest/value now, older people are actually a much better fit. The Yay STEM Kidz! game is healthy enough.
1
7
To take my own case, I’m like at 1/10th raw ability in terms of math etc compared to when I was 24 or even when I finished postdoc at 32. But at 46 I think my tastes and intuitions are 100x better…
1
5
So I’m far less able to do any sort of raw impressive genius shit (which I wasn’t capable of even at my peak anyway) but I suspect I could find and ask much better leveraged questions with technically “easier” but more interesting results.
1
5
You can’t “preserve” what doesn’t actually exist. The indie science gentry last had meaningful impact circa 1900. The institutional science has been dominant since at least then. Since WW2 it’s been the only game in town. A hegemony. Mostly benevolent but still a hegemony.
Quote Tweet
Replying to @vgr
Isn't this basically about preserving the power and relevance of the gentry versus the institutions that are displacing them?
2
10
Re: age, there’s a parallel to entrepreneurship. The pop image is brash 22-year-olds. The reality is median successful founder starts at 39-40. The biggest successes tend younger but the median is pushing 40. The experience and confidence to buck institutional norms matters.
2
29
The average starry-eyed 17-year old is thrilled to be in a university lab and co-author a published paper. The average 40-year-old interested in indie science typically has already been there/done that, and developed an aversion to it.
1
11
Ymmv, but I’d be thrilled to never publish in journals/conferences again, or see a grant application. Crackpot posts on my blog will do for me.
4
10
Line is for cafe which also sells parking and tour tickets. Guided tour likely sold out though. Guy apparently on Mars sample return mission team holding forth at a picnic table to buddies (Mt. Wilson is near JPL/ Pasadena)
1
4
While I wait for our sandwiches… one of the structural frictions of research is that like half the work gets done in the idle screwing around REPL-like phase of plating with ideas, math, data, and instruments. The part that starts with proposals is like the scaling investment.
1
4
Proposal to papers is like series A to IPO. The seed stage is not institutionally organized because you’re expected to be inside the institution and not need support. Desk, computers, office, library, lab, colleagues.
1
5
Expecting indie science to start at the proposals+public-data stage is… somewhere between clueless and disingenuous. You don’t need the whole luxury university environment (though I certainly enjoyed my time in it), but you need a basic version at least.
1
8