Yeah I think the appeal of the book is that he does vaguely wave at a bunch of phenomena that are important and neglected. But his explanations of each of them is totally wrong.
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It's one of the rare books I didn't finish. The dichotomies were often too squishy and levels of abstraction often didn't stack. You made my day with this. The book is adored by so many I respect that I've doubted my comprehension at times.
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Replying to @Grow_Wiser @Meaningness
This is a bit like saying Jurassic Park gets dinosaurs wrong. I think you guys are looking for praxis in a work of poiesis. Carse cannot be dissected like philosophy. He is best experienced as ecstatic poetry and paired with analytical writers on his themes (Arendt pairs well)
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Replying to @vgr @Meaningness
I am not objecting to it being a source of inspiration. I am objecting because people very much do treat it as a work of philosophy: it becomes a cited premise in logical arguments. Those who actually accept it as no more than a kind of spiritual sermon: may the zen be with you
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Replying to @Grow_Wiser @vgr
Likewise, I think poetic scripture is fine per se. One has to ask “if I take this as poetic scripture, where does it point?” Some of what F&IG points toward (nebulosity, playfulness) I’m on board with.
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Replying to @Meaningness @vgr
GrowWiser Retweeted GrowWiser
Content-wise I think it has the potential to get people unstuck, but also the danger of undermining dev of competence and responsibility. Kind of what I was snarking at with https://twitter.com/Grow_Wiser/status/1329824706380267522 …
@vgr is a bit torn, but OK with this I think? Mediocrity in a mansion ftw?
GrowWiser added,
GrowWiser @Grow_WiserWhen I read stuff like this I hear: societal broke: Try to build competence and responsibility so we can make the world better. liberal woke: Try to make individuals feel better by putting them into experience machines. meaningness bespoke: Descend/ascend into pure solipsism. https://twitter.com/AskYatharth/status/1329165422684463106 …1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
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Replying to @vgr @Meaningness
Potentially undermining development of competence and responsibility.
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Replying to @Grow_Wiser @Meaningness
Ah yes, I’m not torn up about that. It’s not an important problem. Just the usual moral panic.
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Replying to @vgr @Meaningness
Your thinking at https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/08/17/the-premium-mediocre-life-of-maya-millennial/ … shows much more depth than that. I am thinking specifically of the part around "it is absolutely crucial that the leaders drink a lot of their own kool-aid". So I will give you more credit than you want whether you like it or not.
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Ah that's actually about a different problem. Not about feeding majority competence and responsibility but exceptional thymos/hunger, which is a necessary condition for the majority to free ride on. Keep Elon Musk crazy so the rest of us can retire to a post-scarcity utopia.
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Replying to @vgr @Meaningness
You are talking about goal, I am talking about method. You understand perfectly what productive people - whether budding founders, line coders, or leaders - need to feel to do their work. Parents/mentors need to feel similar to raise them. Majority norms influence this feeling
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